Do any of you actually hate fansubs?

[LegendaryWeasel]

Well yea i know that fansubs are being distributed even thought the title is licensed. Yes i know its wrong and illegal, but do any of you actually hate the fact that they are being distributed?

I know its wrong but i cant complain

[Dtortot]

I love them! From my point of view: For if it wasnt for them I would be stuck watching DBZ or something worse.

Yes they are bad and evreything but as an otaku that starves on anime I love them

Mexico is not the best place to get good anime or to get it easily at any music/book store.

[Heero-sama]

I can't say there is really anything in this world that I hate, fansubs included. In general, I try only to watch series that haven't been liceanced in the US (Wolf's Rain, Gundam Seed...) but everyonce and again, my desire for anime can't be supressed and I watch fansubs of liceansed series (Hellsing, RahXephon...).

I think what I like most about the fansubs is that they force me to watch titles sub-titled. Usually I'm a dubbed guy *dodges objects hurled from angry otakus*, but I think it's good for me to start watching more things subbed.

[Master Blaster]

As a resident of Canada where anime is hard to come by I find Fan Subs rather useful. While rented anime is easy to come by the selection is still rather limited. And with out fansubs I probably would have watched only 32 or the 52 titles I have seen. (Please not that some of those titles I have seen as a fansub and later on VHS or DVD.)

Of course I do have the stupidest FanSub ever saved on a CD. It is a English dubbed episode of Escaflowne with completely incorrect French Subtitles.

[DaVeDuDe]

It would be hard to hate them considering there is alot of good anime out there that is either not licensed or so rare to find licensed... that the only alternative is to go fansub. :cool:

[Animefanboy]

I only use fan-sub to preview a series befor I decide to buy it. Otherwise fan-subs are ok, besides the facf that their illegal. And Heero-sama (gets hit by object because Heero-sama doges it) I feel for yuo man, personally I like dub. We should start a support group!

[shinigamikender]

^^ Fansubs are nice, especially when you want to see series that may never be seen in the US, like Gokinjo Monogatari, Kodomo no Omocha, and Hell Sensei Nube. Shows like these probably will never see the light of day in the US. ^^ But, by way of dedicated fans we can see them.

But, Shini strongly dislikes using digisubs, since most digisubbers(most, mind you) seem to like racing the American companies for new shows, shows they *know* will be licensed. That, I cannot approve of. Some digisubs have brought light to a lot of good shows to American producers. Shows like Gravitation and Yami no Matsuei would be considered hard to market and bad publicity save for the masses of girls and guys who fell in love with them by way of digisub. But, for the masses of digisubbers who sub a show because they don't like the American distributer? I dislike.

[Master Blaster]

Just a two cent thought. (if it's even worth that)

The Capitalist sees fansubs as illegal and unfair. The Communist sees them as a good way of spreading entertainment to people.

Most people will take a stance in the middle with a slight leaning towards one side. Which basically means they like them for seeing unlicenced stuff but are somewhat against the fansubs of licenced stuff, or don't mind fansubs of licenced stuff but don't watch them.

Almost everything can break down in Capitalism vs. Socialism

[More Food]

I support fansubs becuase it allows us to watch whatever's currently hot in Japan, instead of waiting two years for the American liscenced version.

Fansubs are free online and dirt cheap when bought directly from fansubbers. I don't see how anyone complain, even if the subs are poor in sound, picture or translation quality.

As for watching fansubs on anime already liscenced, I don't think there's any excuse. You had the chance to download/buy it before it was licenced. If you still want to support the anime, buy the offical American release.

[HappyDonut]

Sort of, but 95% yes, 5% no. I know people don't have much of an anime selection from where they live and I don't blame them for saying yes. But if you live in an area with anime sold almost everywhere, you see things from a different perspective.
I only get fansubs just to watch the latest series and I don't want to wait for months or years just for a particular series to come out and then I end up disliking it.

One thing about my dislike on fansubs is they don't pay any royalties to the creators. But if anime companies can pump out anime at an alarming rate (creators and distributors), there's nothing to worry about.

[samurai]

I have no problem with them, because if I dont like the series, then I just stop watching. If I like them, then I buy the official thing when it gets released or when I have the extra cash. So no, I dont hate them. I actually think they help promote sales too.

[Master Blaster]

Originally posted by HappyDonut
Sort of, but 95% yes, 5% no. I know people don't have much of an anime selection from where they live and I don't blame them for saying yes. But if you live in an area with anime sold almost everywhere, you see things from a different perspective.
I only get fansubs just to watch the latest series and I don't want to wait for months or years just for a particular series to come out and then I end up disliking it.

Just to add to your point. For me, my selection is horrendously limited by what my Video Store has to rent. (I can purchase about half of there selection at the huge electronics retailer across the street). Anime Conventions are about the only place I can buy a lot of things. Especially since the video store carries stuff I wouldn't even let someone to make me watch. (Think Tekken).

My view is that most fansubs should be illegal but things like MD Geist, Tekken, etc. should be available as fansubs for people who want to know the feeling of impaling their head on twenty foot long metal spike without actually killing themselves. (You have to be very stupid, very sadistic, or a member of a mental hospital to want to watch these)

[Ojisan]

I love fansubs because i dont have to spend so much damned money on anime. When my collection got to about a grand, i found out about fansubs and this vastly increased my anime intake. I know that its wrong when the anime is licensed and the makers dont get the money they deserve, but I would not be into anime nearly as much because i couldnt afford it and therefore couldnt buy it and make the makers money, so they're not losing to much money on me.

[Alex]

Don't hate them at all. Sometimes you just can't get at a particular anime any other way.

[Kuragari]

Originally posted by Ojisan
I love fansubs because i dont have to spend so much damned money on anime.

lol, that's pretty much the case with me too.

*opens up his moth ridden wallet* :(

[matthewmalay]

I love fansubs amd I don't care if something is licensed or not

Most anime fans have a limited budget on what they can spend on anime and I'm sure there a ton of stuff they wanna get but can't really afford to so whats wrong with with making sure that when they buy something they will enjoy it.

If a someone downloads and watches 100 series but can only afford one, they're gonna only get one series with or without fansubs

[Paul Eye]

If fansubs wouldn't exist, there's no way I could ever have gotten into the world of anime in the first place. So my answer is no, I don't hate them at all. And besides, up here in Finland even licensed anime is rather difficult to find on DVD and everything is imported and pretty expensive. Of course those more known movies and series - like Esacflowne, Evangelion, Akira, Sailor Moon, Ghost in the Shell, Princess Mononoke etc. - can be found in small special shops but that's it. Of course, plans are to get more stuff on DVD, but that requires some more money, and the will to actually spend it too...

[Popo]

Hail to fan subs... one less thing in the world I have to pay for I’d have to be plan my day around watching the odd episode of anime on the TV still if it weren’t for fan subs and I wouldn’t have seen 99% of what I have without them I love them for there convenience and the witty comments they make e.g.: love hina in some episode there was a news report real in Japanese subtitle: "earthquake many injured who cares love hina is better”

[The Macaque]

I say fansubs are great and would like to thank all the groups who produce them. I mean for a person like myself, who's always short on cash, spending my last dimes on DVD's just doesn't seem to make any sence at all. I find it very sad that everything has to evolve around money these days, although I see the point that the pepole making anime need the income too.

Dammit, if only money just wouldn't exist we'd all be alot happier on this planet.

[EpleMOS]

I like fansubs, but if I watch a series, and I like it, I will buy it...

meh poor bank account D:

[Tatumaru]

I love fansubs! It allows me to see episodes of Inu Yasha before they come out in America!

[6th Name Agent]

Originally posted by More Food
I support fansubs becuase it allows us to watch whatever's currently hot in Japan, instead of waiting two years for the American liscenced version.

That's my deal. I watch what I can, while it's airing in Japan.


If I like the series enough, I'll purchase it when it releases in the US. The only problem with that is many of the shows I watch may not ever come to the US. Without Fansubs I'll have missed out on many shows, so currently I only see them as a good thing.

[Roark]

I'm actually growing to DISLIKE fansubs. There's a considerable amount of pressure to get fansubs out as quickly as possible before a series gets A) liscensed B) released by another group. This has led to a considerable downturn in the quality of fansubs. When you have a 6 hour air-to-fansub time, something's wrong. It's also made the process of acquiring them that much trickier, as one now needs to track which group's release you're watching. I don't like the "us vs. them" attitude this inspires, both among fansubbers and "loyal customers" of a certain group. I don't like the pressure groups have on them to keep releasing series after they're liscensed, violating one of the fundamental principles of fansubbing. Finally, I don't like the expectation that free fast fansubs create in the community. People now expect anime on demand for free. I've visited countless forums and channels where people talk about "company's ripping us off for OUR anime". The new anime community, who weaned off DBZ by watching Naruto digisubs expect to always get anime for free. There used to be rejoicing when a series got liscensed. Now, people bitch about how they can't watch it anymore. By the way, popular series nowadays don't take two years between liscensing and street date. Take Juuni Kokki for example, which is STILL AIRING in Japan and already getting the DVD treatment here.

In short, I think that fansubbers have lost sight of their original purpose: to bring series that probably would not see american shores ever to english speaking viewers. Shows like Naruto, GitS: SAC, and Ninja Scroll TV do not need fansubs. They'll come over here. On the website for now-defunct Kodocha fansubs (guess what their first project was), there used to be the following disclaimer: fansubs are not a cheap alternative to liscensed anime. That's what fansubs have become. They shouldn't be, and the way things are going is an invitation for trouble. People seem to have forgotten that fansubs are a part of fandom that are TOLERATED. They don't need to exist, and could very easily not exist. Fansubs exist by the Grace of Liscensing Companies. Right now, anime fandom is abusing that Grace. It must stop.

[TonoTheHero]

I hate fansubers who thinks its cool to have an unreadable font. The same goes for those fansubers who lack the language skills/devotion/time to make a decent fansub but for some obscure reason still fansubs.

[Mamimi]

If fansubs were never created, i would never have seen a lot of great anime. some are really hard to find, while others are too expensive >.<

[LegendaryWeasel]

after all that has been said about them fans are of great importance to my community, it has brought alot of people together and made them become friends. But then again like everyone has said there is always a good and a bad part to everysingle thing, nothings perfect

[Chichiri Sama]

If it's not liscensed, then there's nothing wrong with them.

I like them, but the quality is sometimes a bit too bad for me.

[Ritalin]

It's a love hate type of relationship. Some groups I hate because of the competition ("Group A sucks compared to Group B, never trust Group A!" etc.). Lately there's been more groups teaming up, but the time taken on an anime is still way to damn fast for supurb quality.

I still like the existance of fansubs, since I have access to anime that will probably never be licensed (Or will in a very long time). It just worries me if I'm actually getting good translations and quality...

[Dragne]

Fan Subs have saved me, up here in the north, the amount of anime that i can buy is so small. Currently in my city there are like one or two shops that sell anime related video's. Also they are HORRIBLY expensive. I mean fifty bucks for one volume of Love Hina? Renting isn't so bad, although there's not much choice there either, since all the good stuff gets stolen by shady figured thugs.

[neongenesis10]

Well I am on both sides I guess. I don’t like them because the majorities I have seen are very poorly done. I personally do not buy them but I don’t tell people not to buy them. I like them because it helps get more anime over from Japan. The choice is yours so f you are comfortable with doing something illegal then go for it. I don't need it because in Pittsburgh there are many places that sell a large varitys of anime.

[Guyara]

Personally, I watch much fansubs. The reason for this is that there's hard to get anime where I come from, and I can't buy from the internet, either. But it'll be a lot more buying of anime DVD's as soon as I turn 18! :D A thing I don't like about fansubs, is that much of it are very poorly done. Many a time have I seen a line been translated without any thought of the line before it.

[SirCanealot]

Originally posted by Roark
Shows like Naruto, GitS: SAC, and Ninja Scroll TV do not need fansubs. They'll come over here.

Okay, Ninja Scroll TV isnt being subbed any more because it is licended.
*pulls out $50 out of his wallet*
Wheres my DVDs? I want to buy the damn anime. Give my my anime damnit. Well? Eh? EH!?
Naruto DVD's? *throws up* I can just imagine "Little Sakura" and "Shadow Clone Technique!" now. Long live TW. Infact. I hope I come across £100000000000 today. I'll license Naruto myself and have TW do the subbing :P
Same with SAC. Its been licensed since the first episode aired in Japan and I havent heard JACK about any R1 DVDs
Well I've made my point there, now moving swiftly on... I think.

I download fansubs. I like fansubs. The quality of their translations and subtitleing are usely a lot better that what you'll find on US DVD's (Edit: Actually that isnt instricly true, DVD subbing is getting hella better, but DVD companies are still slow to take up stuff leaveing the friken honorifics on and avoiding aboinations like Kenshins "Little Yahiko" as well as translation notes. I hope for hell ADV do a good job with Azumanga Daioh.... if you dont include tranlation notes along with the jokes the meaning of many of them is gone, gone, gone). and video quality is getting better and better as well (sound isnt to bad these days either). Fansubs are an excellent way of seeing series before they are licenced in the USA. Imo, thats what fansubs have become now. Even if there are one or two series that have DVD's out when they are still airing in Japan there are still LOOOAADS more series that will take months or even years to come out in the USA. And even when they do release them in the USA they release at some stupidly slow rate of a DVD every two or three months. When I was downloading Mahoromatic Season 2 a few months ago after having watched fansubs of Season 1 a month or so before that I was suprised to hear the American DVDs were out already. Only took a damn year.
Basically what I'm saying is: Licenseing is getting faster and better (except in the case of Shaman King.. I dont care what your morales are Fansubs >>>> Cut/edited dub+no DVDs) but it still takes hella time for a series to come out in the USA.

However Fansubs are piracy. I dont try to condone this and I do support the anime idustry when I have a few spare bucks (allthough saying this I buy anime DVD's for ME not for ADV or Manga...)

Oh heres my disliked points about fansubbing:
Anime Junkies
Groups who use insanely small fonts. Forgod sake! I watch my anime on a TV and sit abour 10 foot from it and I dont have great vision (even with my glasses on.. need new lenses :/) so it really dosent help when they use some ladeda multicolour subs in font size 4. The subbers should try standing 50 foot away from their monitor then try to read the font. If you can read it then go with that font.

Oh well thats my rant/2 cents/whatever on a few issues from this thread.

[Kuragari]

Originally posted by SirCanealot
Oh heres my disliked points about fansubbing:
Anime Junkies
Groups who use insanely small fonts. Forgod sake! I watch my anime on a TV and sit abour 10 foot from it and I dont have great vision (even with my glasses on.. need new lenses :/) so it really dosent help when they use some ladeda multicolour subs in font size 4. The subbers should try standing 50 foot away from their monitor then try to read the font. If you can read it then go with that font.

Amen to that, lol. A good subtitle is a somewhat bright font color plus an outline of black around it, making it suitable for all scenes.

A little offtrack, but still on the topic of subbing.. When I watch all these Chinese movies I have, they've got the black bar at the top and the bottom, and some of them are subbed with crappy white on the film part of the movie, why can't they just use the damn black space right there for them? >.<

[SirCanealot]

Originally posted by Kuragari
A little offtrack, but still on the topic of subbing.. When I watch all these Chinese movies I have, they've got the black bar at the top and the bottom, and some of them are subbed with crappy white on the film part of the movie, why can't they just use the damn black space right there for them? >.<

Those films are in 16:9 letterbox format. With a 4:3 TV putting subs into the letterbox seems like an extremely good idea. But for those of us with 16:9 Widescreen TV's putting subs into the letter box is extremely gay and should never be done, ever since we can "zoom" Letterbox into full screen by useing 16:9Zoom. Putting the subs into the letterbox would stop us zooming it and forces people with 16:9 TVs to watch the movie in 4:3 with huge black bars all around the top, bottom and left, right parts of the screen.
Make sense now?

Additionally (still): Borring, huge, white subtitles >>>>> ladedadeda ranbow subtitles

[munky]

Fansubs are good for anime that's not licensed in the US yet.. or possibly never will be. I love fansubs! the only time when i hate them is when they're horribly done and they screw up the dialogue or something

[LazyWulfran]

I really have no problem with fansubs, even those of licensed animes. Yes, I know they're illegal. However, when you have a company releasing 3 episodes per DVD, and charging $20-30 USD, that's just ridiculous. It's possible to fit twice that much on there. And even though the editing on commercial releases is generally better, they have a much easier job, since they tend to change meanings. I've never seen honorifics used in commercial subs, nor karaoke timing, and some of their translations are, uhhh. . . Oh, and I got the Disney DVD for Laputa recently (which they changed the title of to just "Castly in the Sky"). The timing and typesetting were horrifyingly bad. The subs tended to jump around quite a bit at the bottom of the screen, and I'm fairly sure that some lines were left untimed, although i can't be certain, since all of them were rather off to begin with.
Fansub quality has begun to increase recently. Some groups DO rush stuff out as fast as possible, but others take their time and do a proper job of it (despite 100 desperate leechers who want the next Inuyasha episode immediately.) The trick is knowing which groups do a good job, and which groups don't. The disappointing part is that the groups which release fastest have the widest distribution, since most people get the first one to come out, and the best versions, the ones which have been edited and quality checked and made as good as possible, end up screwed because they aren't fast enough for the masses.
I'll probably end up getting the DVDs for GITS: SAC when they come out. I'll probably also let them sit on my shelf, because I really doubt that the company which releases them will be able to do a better job than the subs I already have.

[unlikelyhero]

I am a great fan of fansubs, they usually do mess with the original wording to the actual show.

[Baka]

I love fansubs but hate groups which don't stop distrubting them after they have been licenced. The companies don't seem to come after the Fansub groups until the anime is liceneced. They are to ruin it for everybody

[LegendaryWeasel]

Originally posted by LazyWulfran
I really have no problem with fansubs, even those of licensed animes. Yes, I know they're illegal. However, when you have a company releasing 3 episodes per DVD, and charging $20-30 USD, that's just ridiculous. It's possible to fit twice that much on there. And even though the editing on commercial releases is generally better, they have a much easier job, since they tend to change meanings. I've never seen honorifics used in commercial subs, nor karaoke timing, and some of their translations are, uhhh. . . Oh, and I got the Disney DVD for Laputa recently (which they changed the title of to just "Castly in the Sky"). The timing and typesetting were horrifyingly bad. The subs tended to jump around quite a bit at the bottom of the screen, and I'm fairly sure that some lines were left untimed, although i can't be certain, since all of them were rather off to begin with.
Fansub quality has begun to increase recently. Some groups DO rush stuff out as fast as possible, but others take their time and do a proper job of it (despite 100 desperate leechers who want the next Inuyasha episode immediately.) The trick is knowing which groups do a good job, and which groups don't. The disappointing part is that the groups which release fastest have the widest distribution, since most people get the first one to come out, and the best versions, the ones which have been edited and quality checked and made as good as possible, end up screwed because they aren't fast enough for the masses.
I'll probably end up getting the DVDs for GITS: SAC when they come out. I'll probably also let them sit on my shelf, because I really doubt that the company which releases them will be able to do a better job than the subs I already have.

I have an idea why they only have 3-4 episodes per dvd. THey release VHS of the exact same thing on dvd, so it would be easier to just use the same format which is 3-4 episodes per disc. Cause if they decided to change the order for just the dvd fitting like 6 episodes per disc, then the dvds would accelerate in the series much faster leaving the tapes behind. so i think they do just a few episodes to keep in sync with the VHS releases

[otaku527]

i think that they r great i mean u don't have to wait the period of time before they bring the anime here and it isn't dubbed

[adamfoy]

I live in England, needn’t I say more?

switch all you’re currency signs into sterling then work out how much they cost in you’re currency.

I could buy them on DVD and watch them on my PC, but when spending large amounts of money on things I could download for free I would then prefer to watch them in comfort in stead of watching them on a 15" monitor. The only other solution is to chip my DVD player but then I’ll be breaking another law, will I not?

[Kagayaki]

I dislike fansubs because I often don't feel I can trust them to be accurate. Although I have seen some done quite weel, I've seen numeousrs fansubs that were obviously off, even points where a character said something in english, and the subs said something else. Someone involved with the subbing process must know english, the grammar and spelling on the subs is normal, so how would such a thing get by.


There is also the fact that it is less money to anime industry. One person not buying a few DVDs doesn't seem like much, but if one considers how many people view fansubs it adds up. Less money means smaller anime bugets, which in turn means worse anime. It may not be a problem now, but with the growing popularity of anime outside of Japan, and fansubbing becoming easier because of technology, the problem will only grow.


I will say that fansubbing does seem to help the anime industry outside of Japan, by introducing more people to it, who will someday hopefully buy anime.
I will also say that I myself am not completely clean of fansubs, and will blame my income as many have before. DVDs are pretty expensive.

Just remember next you go to download a fansub, you could be depriving some poor animator of money to buy lunch.:(

[Roark]

Originally posted by adamfoy
I live in England, needn’t I say more?

switch all you’re currency signs into sterling then work out how much they cost in you’re currency.

I could buy them on DVD and watch them on my PC, but when spending large amounts of money on things I could download for free I would then prefer to watch them in comfort in stead of watching them on a 15" monitor. The only other solution is to chip my DVD player but then I’ll be breaking another law, will I not?

...

This is exactly what's wrong with fansubs. THEY ARE NOT FREAKING CHEAP SUBSTITUTES FOR DVDs. Stuff costs money for a reason. Go get off your lazy ass, get a job, and contribute to economic stability. Oh, and just get a cheap vid-out card for your comp, since it sounds like you can play R1 dvd's on that... I can find them for around $20 US... shouldn't be too expensive in britain.

[Mira]

My only real complaint with fansubs is that the quality is often poor (get what you pay for though eh?)but otherwise I'm fine with them as long as they aren't used for some serious profit. I avoid them once the material is available commercially and so much is available that it has been a long time since I've used one. BTW, does anyone else out there remember when bootleg anime meant reading from a translated script along to the Japanese? (I remember this with Sailor Moon and Dirty Pair especially)
mira

[Young Guns]

hey if u are stuck somewhere in a desert where there is absolutely no access to anime stores at all, i think the fansub people are saints from heaven.

yes it is bad and will hurt the producers but i believe it is really nothing much than a mosquito bite as many people will buy the dvds willingly if they can get their hands on em.

in addition fansubs are really ridiculously hard to dl... hehe.

[meetSAMiAM]

i didn't bother with fansubs still i started attending college and got a t3 connection. now i love them :-) the thing is, i usually end up deleting what i've watched so i dunno if it's that big of a deal... or is it?

[soundchazer]

Originally posted by Elmira
My only real complaint with fansubs is that the quality is often poor

I really think people are spoiled to the core. Back in the day where you had to pay shipping and send VHS tapes to fansubbers so they could make a copy for you, you knew you would get a REALLY bad copy with all the colors mixed together and really bad sound and we would still got them because we enjoyed the anime. Now it seems everyone thinks that just because they missed an honorific title or the color doesn't look quite like DVD, you have a bad fansub.

Seriously guys, even Anime Junkies is light years better than the stuff we used to get in the late 80's and early 90's. If you don't like the quality, find a translator and s raw provider and do the work yourself. These guys dedicate a lot of time and even money to bring anime to the comfort of your home, and the only thing you can do is complain about it. :angry

[Mira]

Originally posted by soundchazer
I really think people are spoiled to the core. Back in the day where you had to pay shipping and send VHS tapes to fansubbers so they could make a copy for you, you knew you would get a REALLY bad copy with all the colors mixed together and really bad sound and we would still got them because we enjoyed the anime.

Seriously guys, even Anime Junkies is light years better than the stuff we used to get in the late 80's and early 90's.

Hey! I remember the "good 'ol" days too! I certainly think the subs are much better today no doubt about it but I've got different standards at this point. I buy or rent all of the anime I want and I don't have to put up with poor quality so I prefer to stay away from the fansub stuff. I'm not trying to run the efforts of the subbers down, and there are some excellent efforts out there, just saying that is about the only beef I can come up with for them (aside from the obvious bootleg issues others have gone on about but those don't matter to me as much anime is still making a pretty penny). Anyway just thought I'd clarify my statement.
mira

[Perrin]

I like fan subs for the simple reason that they are a free way to find out what series is worth actually owning. I watch them then if I like the series i will go buy it. I also like watching anime that is not licensed in america yet.

[ninja velmor]

i couldn't say becuase i never watched a fansub i can;'t find a site to watch them on so i'll just stick to buying anime <img src="http://orangeday.net/kakashi/quiz/2874/kakashi.gif"

[iggypop]

Fansubs equal TV for me. I don't have any way to get exposure to anime before I buy it, so I like to use fansubs to expose myself to anime. I must say that I find my actions illegal, but I can justify it to myself saying that everyone else can at least see what they are getting on TV. So I can use fansubs to see what I am going to get too. I can say that the majority of anime I have downloaded I am planning on buying (GTO is next on the list) so I for one really like fansubs. I don't think fansubs save money for me, actually they decrease money for me becasue I want to buy all the goddam anime that I have seen.
/me curses

[Shinta]

I love Fans subs as it is very expensive to by anime where I live an it gives me the chance to see a series before I chose to buy or not. They are good as long as they take off the anime as soon as its licenced.

[neverknowsbest]

I think fansubs are great, though they are sometimes a little difficult to obtain. I don't think distribution will stop once the title is licensed due to the advent of file sharing, but that's a good thing for some of us that don't have a whole lot of money, are frugal, or don't live near a store (which was mentioned before). Fansubs also add a certain character to the translation that you wouldn't get on the official DVD, and sometimes it's pretty funny.

[Dustsman]

1. A lot of fansubs are not illegal until the anime is licensed.

2. It's getting rediculous that sometimes they only put 3 EPISODES ON A -DVD-.......that is highway robbery ^_^.


Well anyways I usuall only watch anime that is just coming out so I watch the fansub, because it takes so long to be released. If I want to watch an anime that has already been released....I buy it.

Also the people that make the anime in the first place have fansubs going out in the firstplace. They do stop you from getting them once it's been released though.

[tuxedomask]

I like fansubs not only because it's free and what others mentioned, also because some groups know how to use a subtitle properly. I got kind of sick seeing the usual plain white subtitle on TV or originals.

[Astribulus]

Originally posted by Dustsman
1. A lot of fansubs are not illegal until the anime is licensed.

2. It's getting rediculous that sometimes they only put 3 EPISODES ON A -DVD-.......that is highway robbery ^_^.


Well anyways I usuall only watch anime that is just coming out so I watch the fansub, because it takes so long to be released. If I want to watch an anime that has already been released....I buy it.

Also the people that make the anime in the first place have fansubs going out in the firstplace. They do stop you from getting them once it's been released though.

1. Fansubs are illegal no matter the status of the license.

2. It's not robbery. It's what the companies believe we are willing to pay.

As to your final note, I've never heard of this happening. What prodution company makes free fansubs for shows it has created?

[No Life King]

My only choice is to love Fan-Subs. DVD's are so expensive, and I need to watch anime. When you are out of cash, Fan-subs are the only way to watch your favorite anime.

[Alex San Lyra]

Here in Brasil I often find my self in the following position: Ether I get the fan-sub or I spend an absurd amount of money to import the DVD... I can understand the problem it is for anime creators, but hell! No DVD is worth the prices I'd have to pay if I was to import it.

As for the fansubing itself, I have to thank the guys who put all that effort into making them. They let those who can't get the DVD get some of the action and they don't make any money out of it.

[Lord Dolmus]

This guy called Mysterious Q is out to stop fansubs and he just might do it, especially if he finds more people that want to stop them.

[DarkKanti]

No one is going to stop fan subs. Period.

Why would you reply to a 3 and a 1/2 year old thread?

[laffinizluv]

I think fnasubs serve a very valueable purpose in the modern anime community. The majority of dedicated anime fans (and by dedicated I mean consistent fans that keep up with the new shows and trends) get their fixes from fan-subs and ultimatly expand the anime fandom because of it.


Without fansubs, where would we be?

[Lord Dolmus]

No one is going to stop fan subs. Period.

Why would you reply to a 3 and a 1/2 year old thread?

Blame the search engine.

P.S. The MPAA is trying and japanese companies are also cracking down on them.

I think fnasubs serve a very valueable purpose in the modern anime community. The majority of dedicated anime fans (and by dedicated I mean consistent fans that keep up with the new shows and trends) get their fixes from fan-subs and ultimatly expand the anime fandom because of it.


Without fansubs, where would we be?

Well fansubs are illegal, take money out of people's pocket, and fansubs are killing dubs, soon the only thing that people will watch is fansubs.

[Mana]

Fansubs have existed for a few decades now and they haven't killed dubs yet.

Yes, they are illegal, but they allow anime companies to figure out which shows a lot of people like and don't like, valuable information that these companies do use when determining what shows to pick up. Anime companies could come down a lot harder on fansubs than they do.

I really wish we could stop with the necro-ing of threads, but if people want to actually discuss this, I'm willing to leave it open for now.

[Sakura Haruno]

WELL I ABSOULETLY HATE IT!!1 ALL THEY DO IS MAKE UP A BUNCH OF CRAP!!

well actually...95% of me hates it and the other 5% actually likes it but overall it's a bunch of baloni!

[Kuzu Ryu Sen]

WELL I ABSOULETLY HATE IT!!1 ALL THEY DO IS MAKE UP A BUNCH OF CRAP!!

well actually...95% of me hates it and the other 5% actually likes it but overall it's a bunch of baloni!

Come again?

And I bet if we didn't have fansubs, Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu wouldn't have been licensed this quickly, nor with this much fanfare.

EDIT: Just on another note regarding the piracy, are we talking about fansubs exclusively, or are we going to lump DVD rippers into this as well?

[Milkymagic]

Fansubs are good, and I've discovered plenty of entertaining anime that had not been released until years later because of this. I followed Hyper Police well into it's fansubbed period, and bought all the DVDs when it was domestically released thanks to enough petitioning, especially when considering the better visuals and audio that DVD gives over some crappy fansub tapes! :p

Also, I still have some fansub favorites that likely won't see the time of day in our country anytime soon, such as Angel's Egg and Twilight Q2. Fansubs let you see what some companies don't want to publish, it's pirating that's probably more of an issue than fansubbing.

And what's going to stop people from even pirating on that note?

[kyubichan]

I don't hate fansubs.

As long as the translation is bearable (proper English) and readable, it's fine by me.

[Ghostmaster]

I think fansubs are great if they are done right a lot of people do them like crap and a lot of them are done really well.

[Erigion]

Course I don't. How else would I get my free hentai?

[General Suburbia]

Course I don't. How else would I get my free hentai?
You mean you actually wanna take your time concentrating on the little words on the bottom of the screen instead of on the action above it?

[Akito]

Why not? The text in itself is pretty arousing.

[7Raven7]

Well fansubs are illegal, take money out of people's pocket, and fansubs are killing dubs, soon the only thing that people will watch is fansubs.

If anything, Fansubs help sell anime. We see a new title, we want to check it out but the sub/dub liscense hasn't been sold or has been sold to a company with no intention of releasing it. We can either try and get interested in it watching something that makes absolutely no sense or we can watch a fan sub. Hmm..

Albeit we dont buy the ones we don't like after 2 episodes, but you also won't find that most of us prefer the retard-monkey translation episodes burned on to DVD over a professional retail product.

They should work out an agreement to legalize them but seeing as they are non-profit it's unlikely. I am amazed AMVs still work out seeing as they are using the Anime and a song.


Course I don't. How else would I get my free hentai?

You need to translate that? I was sure "Ahhh! Umph! Ooo!" translates the same in every language...

[laborpilot86]

My policy with fan-subs is....................Only Series not licensed in the U.S or series whose license has expired.

Thier are two exceptions to this rule: Eureka Seven, because its really long and Bandai has a stupid episode-per-disc format and Mobile Suit Gundam, which is unavailable unedited and in Japanese.


Fansubs help anime grow in the English-speaking world. Death Note, Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, Azumanga Daioh, Paradise Kiss and many other series would never have been licensed if it wasn't for the hard work of fansubbing groups.

The following series are not available legally in the U.S....

Romance of the Three Kingdoms
Rose of Versielles
Captain Harlock TV
Devilman TV
Orguss
Space Battleship Yamato TV
Space Adventure Cobra
and many many others

The above series are required viewing for anyone who is a serious anime fan, and we can only get them as fansubs

[icelava]

You mean you actually wanna take your time concentrating on the little words on the bottom of the screen instead of on the action above it?
Raw imagery only goes so far. Next time you make love, don't utter a word. Be silent. Or speak in a language your lover doesn't know. ;-)

Back on topic. Fansubs allow me to identify which are the titles I'll buy DVDs direct from Japan, coz the local market is chock full of fakes and the local authorities are none the wiser.

[Ritalin]

This guy called Mysterious Q is out to stop fansubs and he just might do it, especially if he finds more people that want to stop them.

Kinda like how the RIAA has been trying to stop music piracy for the past decade and oh wait they're not stopping shit.

Fansubs won't be stopped. Nothing stopping someone from recording -> encoding -> distributing. Be it online or old school VHS (DVD these days, perhaps?)

[soundchazer]

You need to translate that? I was sure "Ahhh! Umph! Ooo!" translates the same in every language...

He was refering to the "motto... MOTTO" "irete kudasai" and "Iku... IKUUUuuuuuuuuuuuu" ;)


And back to the fansub question: I love fansubs. They are my source of entertainment more often than not. Keep them coming!

[KiraraKim]

Well probably like most people on here I download fansubs and highly enjoy watching the newest series from Japan. I will even download fansubs for a series that is licensed if the fansubs are so ahead of the US DVD release.

However I don't like it when fansubs are available when the DVDs are out for those episodes. And I also dislike people who keep their burned fansubs and don't purchase the licensed DVDs when they are released.

[Erigion]

I suppose I don't actually wait for fansubs. I wait for the DVD-rippers since they're not censored. Stupid fuzzy stuff!

So I'll change my position and say I don't care about fansubbers.

[bwing55543]

For me, it depends on the quality of the sub. I remember seeing a Rurouni Kenshin fansub where the subber decided to put the "F" word at least once for every other sentence for no apparent reason; I don't think Shishio was that foul-mouthed and neither was Sanosuke.

[sohryu]

At this point in my anime fandom, I don't really care either way. I've stopped picking up new anime, both subbed and the licensed, dubbed stuff. I suppose if something related to an anime I've already seen were to come out (think sequel or second season), I'd want to grab the fansub as soon as possible. Otherwise, no more anime for me. Who has time for anime when DotA games and a possible WoW addiction are on the menu?!!? >.>

So I'll change my position and say I don't care about fansubbers.
You'd care if there were new eps of Ouran being released. <.<

[Liebesapfel]

I like fansubs because I don't have to wait forever to watch a new anime. But then there are those people who "proudly rip DVDs", and those who like to put on insults like "Learn how to read Japanese, geeks".

[ShinoMatrix]

Fansubs are my TV... that's pretty much sums it up for me. Now if only I could actually get a real TV card to insert to this comp, then I won't have to leave my chair at all :XD:

[Erigion]

You'd care if there were new eps of Ouran being released. <.<Too bad that'll never happen.

[Mana]

Who has time for anime when DotA games and a possible WoW addiction are on the menu?!!? >.>

You aren't addicted yet if you're still posting here :p

[laborpilot86]

Mana-sama has got a point.................:rolleyes:

Anyway, I'll state what I think of fansubs once and for all (I included a discussion of fansubs in a paper about copyright and downloading last quarter)...

Fansubs are to anime what fantasy leagues are to sports. They help generate interest where none might not exist before. This is particularly important for anime because of how expensive most liscences are, with $20,000 per episode being common (for a series like Neon Genesis Evangelion, do the math) and most of the distrubitors aren't Bandai or, to an extent, Funimation and flash that kind of cash for something the size of Naruto or One Piece and not have a garuntee of a return on the investment. Fansubs are an excellent way of test-driving a series to see if its any good, which is why most companies are content to simply send a cease-and-desist letter to a fansubbing group instead of tossing around lawsuits a la the record business.

[f1rst children]

As long as there's fansubs that are actually better than commercial releases, I don't see any reason to stop watching them. Some fansubbers do several things some commercial translators don't, like translating on-screen text, including notes about cultural items, and karaoke-ing the OP/ED songs.

Frankly, I'm just going with the higher quality product. The fact that it's free is gravy.

[bwing55543]

I love them! From my point of view: For if it wasnt for them I would be stuck watching DBZ or something worse.

Yes they are bad and evreything but as an otaku that starves on anime I love them

Mexico is not the best place to get good anime or to get it easily at any music/book store.

Same. However, my pet peeve is the quality of:
a. the video itself
b. the subbing

I remember seeing a Rurouni Kenshin fansub where the person who implemented the subtitles had the characters use the "f" word every so often for no reason at all.

[laborpilot86]

that's just bad translation and teenage idiocy if you ask me.

[ProfessorWashu]

Mana-sama has got a point.................:rolleyes:

Anyway, I'll state what I think of fansubs once and for all (I included a discussion of fansubs in a paper about copyright and downloading last quarter)...

Fansubs are to anime what fantasy leagues are to sports. They help generate interest where none might not exist before. This is particularly important for anime because of how expensive most liscences are, with $20,000 per episode being common (for a series like Neon Genesis Evangelion, do the math) and most of the distrubitors aren't Bandai or, to an extent, Funimation and flash that kind of cash for something the size of Naruto or One Piece and not have a garuntee of a return on the investment. Fansubs are an excellent way of test-driving a series to see if its any good, which is why most companies are content to simply send a cease-and-desist letter to a fansubbing group instead of tossing around lawsuits a la the record business.

A good, valid point. I don't oppose fansubs, I just oppose it when some people use them as the only means of obtaining anime. It is the duty of a consumer to put a little money in the pot every now and then, to drive the market forward. Fansubs can serve as pilots, but when push comes to shove, you need to buy the anime you watch.

I could make an argument that it is A-OK to fansub a series that never makes it stateside. After all, we're entitled to the entire anime pie here in the states as much as the Japanese are. If companies aren't willing to sell and don't translate, then it is the right of the consumer to obtain goods by other means than the market.

I say what I mean in this argument, but I'm a tad conflicted to be honest. I listen to music on the radio and watch TV, but don't normally buy CDs or anime they show on TV. If I see a series I LOVE on TV, I'll buy it, but that's it. I'll just listen to music a la radio or on youtube channels. I kind of feel bad, but I'm acting in a legal manner. Besides, a lot of what I listen to on youtube is verrrry hard to find. (It's as if no one sells any techno where I live!)

What I'm saying is, I oppose exclusive use of fansubs as your anime, but at the same time I kinda feel like a hypocrite. Am I?

[ZZalapski]

Fansubs are to anime what fantasy leagues are to sports. They help generate interest where none might not exist before.

As a long-time fantasy sports player, I have to challenge this analogy. Fantasy sports do not compete with actual sports leagues in the revenue streams of ticket sales, merchandise, or TV ratings. (We can argue all day about the degree to which fansubs compete with DVD sales, but there is competition.)

Their effect on a very casual fan is negligible in those same terms; if one is not already inclined to pay for a ticket, buy a replica jersey, or devote three hours to watching a game on TV, s/he is not likely to just because s/he happens to be in a fantasy league at the spouse's insistence. (The only exception I can think of would be watching an NFL game, especially if it's on a 50-inch HDTV.) This is because fantasy sports, in my experience, is less about the sport itself and more about the social interaction; it's a good excuse to get together with your buddies on draft day with beer and pizza, and trash-talk during the workday about how your free agent pickup hit two HRs last night, while his ace pitcher got knocked out in the second inning.

most companies are content to simply send a cease-and-desist letter to a fansubbing group instead of tossing around lawsuits a la the record business.

"Limited" is more like it, as far as R1 companies go.

I like fansubs in theory. In practice...not so much.

[Roark]

I could make an argument that it is A-OK to fansub a series that never makes it stateside. After all, we're entitled to the entire anime pie here in the states as much as the Japanese are. If companies aren't willing to sell and don't translate, then it is the right of the consumer to obtain goods by other means than the market.


Back in the VHS/LD era, that was a good argument. Now, it's possible to provide a subtitle track file, instructions to use it with PowerDVD, and two links: one to cdjapan or something, the other to a program that makes your DVD drive region free. That way, you'd at least be nabbing the R2 releases. For HD content, the US and Japan are in the same region, last I heard, so the last part isn't needed!

[PsychoSaiya-jin]

I'm actually growing to DISLIKE fansubs. There's a considerable amount of pressure to get fansubs out as quickly as possible before a series gets A) liscensed B) released by another group. This has led to a considerable downturn in the quality of fansubs. When you have a 6 hour air-to-fansub time, something's wrong. It's also made the process of acquiring them that much trickier, as one now needs to track which group's release you're watching. I don't like the "us vs. them" attitude this inspires, both among fansubbers and "loyal customers" of a certain group. I don't like the pressure groups have on them to keep releasing series after they're liscensed, violating one of the fundamental principles of fansubbing. Finally, I don't like the expectation that free fast fansubs create in the community. People now expect anime on demand for free. I've visited countless forums and channels where people talk about "company's ripping us off for OUR anime". The new anime community, who weaned off DBZ by watching Naruto digisubs expect to always get anime for free. There used to be rejoicing when a series got liscensed. Now, people bitch about how they can't watch it anymore. By the way, popular series nowadays don't take two years between liscensing and street date. Take Juuni Kokki for example, which is STILL AIRING in Japan and already getting the DVD treatment here.

In short, I think that fansubbers have lost sight of their original purpose: to bring series that probably would not see american shores ever to english speaking viewers. Shows like Naruto, GitS: SAC, and Ninja Scroll TV do not need fansubs. They'll come over here. On the website for now-defunct Kodocha fansubs (guess what their first project was), there used to be the following disclaimer: fansubs are not a cheap alternative to liscensed anime. That's what fansubs have become. They shouldn't be, and the way things are going is an invitation for trouble. People seem to have forgotten that fansubs are a part of fandom that are TOLERATED. They don't need to exist, and could very easily not exist. Fansubs exist by the Grace of Liscensing Companies. Right now, anime fandom is abusing that Grace. It must stop.I have to agree here. The self-imposed "ethics" of fansubbing has slowly gone out the window. Things have become twisted now, with groups fansubbing on already popular shows and partaking in hideous rival fansub drama. The attitude of the fandom has also become quite bitter as well.

That being said, it would be hypocritical of me to completely condemn fansubs outright since I use it as an alternative to television and a means to get others interested in different anime. Using fansubs as an alternative to DVDs is most definitely out of line. DVDs have been getting cheaper and cheaper. Even in Britain, we used to have the problem of disks costing an average of £20 (or roughly $40) each and releases were often years behind that of the US (which in turn was behind Japan). The problem is now that once a person has convinced themselves that the world is in such a state that it justifies their own ends, then it is very difficult to shift that perspective. For example, in the UK we now have silm-pack box sets that can contain an entire season of GiTS SAC: 2nd GiG for £22. I can buy 20 episodes of Naruto or 40 episodes of Thundercats for £15.

Granted, things are not perfect. There is a lack of assurance that certain series' will ever be released completely. There is also a lack of a specific release schedule for a series. Ideally, I would like to be able to subscribe to an anime series and receive the next DVD each month.
The first volume of Kuraru has only just now come out over here. I have yet to see any Berserk.

Even then, importing from the US (or even cheaper, Canada) is not a problem. Most modern DVD players are multi-region or can be unlocked through software updates. The only drawback I can find is that I can't share those DVDs with friends.

Part of the issue is from flaws inside the current Western Anime Industry. I can empathise that people don't want to have to purchse a copy of episodes they only plan on watching once. People are adverse to purchasing an entire series that they have never even seen before. It's for this reason that I'm interested in the possibilities of ad-supported digital streaming as a distribution medium. As an analogy or example: I like to watch the Daily Show and The Colbert Report every now and again. TDS is thankfully available on the UK "More4" channel every Thursday. Unfortunately, TCR is not. Not a problem, both can be viewed on Comedy Central's official website.

What I would ultimately like to see is a website that allows Japanese TV content to be viewed over The Internet and can accept user-created subtitles. That is my current dream for not only anime but international media as a whole.

[ProfessorWashu]

Back in the VHS/LD era, that was a good argument. Now, it's possible to provide a subtitle track file, instructions to use it with PowerDVD, and two links: one to cdjapan or something, the other to a program that makes your DVD drive region free. That way, you'd at least be nabbing the R2 releases. For HD content, the US and Japan are in the same region, last I heard, so the last part isn't needed!

Hm. You're definitely on to something. I was unaware those things even existed (I kinda live under a rock, technology wise...) That pretty much debunks my original argument, but still. That seems like a lot of work and a small sum of cash on top of the initial cost of the anime to get a series. That just doesn't seem fair. Ah, well. Some fansubbers just BS the subtitles anyway, so I may as well have a translation I can trust. Thanks, Roark.

[PsychoSaiya-jin]

Ah, this reminds me how I used to buy all of my Ghibli releases R2 from Japan. It's the same region as the UK and the Japanese DVDs came with English subtitles included.

TBH, ones of the most annoying problems for the international markets has been those bloody region codes. I believe it is not longer illegal to play multi-region since it was decided to be anti-competitive. If we didn't have regions, it would be nice if we could purchase the Japanese content [at a reasonable expense] and then pay extra for subtitles or even a dub audio track at a later date. The technology we have right now is moving in the direction where that could become an option - even if we aren't there yet.