Nakibokuro

[kuroneko]

Can anyone who speaks japanese, or is very familiar with Japanese culture, explain the significance of nakibokuro?

For those that who don't know what nakibokuro is, it's an "eyespot" below one of the eyes, like a beauty mark.
http://members.tripod.com/~f_babes/ritsuko02.jpg

it has something to do wiht crying as mentioned in evangelion.

thanx for anyone who can give me more information.

[ProfessorWashu]

I tried but I couldn't find anything on it except some pictoral examples. Would you tell me which episode of Eva it's in, so I can get the context of your citation? Maybe that could give me some clues...

I'm pretty deep into Japanese culture, but I'll be damned if this one didn't slip by me. Well, maybe we can find out what it is together. (If you haven't already...)

[isolatedotaku]

Allow me to add some sudo-intelligent assumptions.

NA (泣) comes up a lot in words meanings "cry" or "crying" which relates to tears. KIBOU means Hope. KURO means Black. Ergo, I would deduce that you could break NAKIBOUKURO down to meaning "A Black Tear of Hope." (I might be bending the rules a bit, but ancient Japanese tended to do so as well.)

I'd imagine that in Kanji this word would be written like this: 泣希望黒

If any of my reasoning is correct, then I would guess that a NAKIBOUKURO is worn for good luck as well as a beauty thing.

*note: Kanji is probably most definitely wrong, but it might help.

Edit//

Also, which episode does this come up in. Dr. Ritsuko Akagi has one, but I don't recall any direct reference to it.

[Akira169]

* Akira169 facepalms :V

I mean... I'm impressed. That's a great theory, but unfortunately, it also happens to be wrong. >_>;;

The actual Japanese term for that is 泣きボクロ. "泣き" means "cry", and "ボクロ" means "mole." It's a "crying mole", in a way.

According to Japanese Wikipedia, it's just one of those moe-things that people seem to dig. Konata has one, Ritsuko has one, so it's GOTTA be popular. As to the reason? Who knows?

[isolatedotaku]

* Akira169 facepalms :V

I mean... I'm impressed. That's a great theory, but unfortunately, it also happens to be wrong. >_>;;

The actual Japanese term for that is 泣きボクロ. "泣き" means "cry", and "ボクロ" means "mole." It's a "crying mole", in a way.

According to Japanese Wikipedia, it's just one of those moe-things that people seem to dig. Konata has one, Ritsuko has one, so it's GOTTA be popular. As to the reason? Who knows?

<_<;;

This is the last time I ask you to check something for me.

Japanese Wiki mention anything about the historical background?

[ProfessorWashu]

Also, which episode does this come up in. Dr. Ritsuko Akagi has one, but I don't recall any direct reference to it.

I thought not. I watched the series religiously, (no pun intended) and had no idea of a mention of nakibokuro.

It's (for some reason) an attractive trait to have a mole under your eye. The concept of a beauty mark traverses the world, as it's a popular notion in the USA as well. Cindy Crawford is particularly well-known for one, although other assets *ahem* seem to outweigh the mole (again, no pun intended.)

I don't know if the nakibokuro was an ancient attraction, or if it was just introduced with the gradual Americanization of Japan. What sayeth Japanese Wikipedia? Since no one will teach Japanese where I live, I can't read it. My guess, since Ritsuko is also a blonde white female, that it may be a result of Americanization. This is only because the stereotypical attractive female to an American male seems to be a blonde, white, busty girl with a beauty mark. (No offense to you fellas, I DID say it was a stereotype, and therefore probably not representative of the whole.)

[f1rst children]

Also, which episode does this come up in. Dr. Ritsuko Akagi has one, but I don't recall any direct reference to it.

I can't recall the episode, but I remember a line something like:

"A woman with a beauty mark in the path of her tears is destined for a life of sadness."

:yuck: Who writes this stuff?



edit: Found it - episode 9 "With One Accord in a Flash." (http://www.tv.com/neon-genesis-evangelion/both-of-you-dance-like-you-want-to-win!/episode/145935/trivia.html) The one where Shinji and Asuka beat the Angel by playing DDR together to the rockin' tunes of L.V. Beethoven.

Kaji: You're enduring an unrequited love.
Ritsuko: Really? You're so very sure, are you?
Kaji: A woman with a mole like a tear on her cheek is destined to a life full of heartache and sorrow.

[ProfessorWashu]

I believe I know what episode you're talking about now. I barely caught that, and thought it was more or less just a comment that Ritsuko would end as a tragic figure. I don't think it was a specific reference to the mark, but to Ritsuko herself. You know Eva. They tried to be poetic in everything they said, no matter how minute.

[laborpilot86]

I think (but don't quite me on it because I'm not sure) that the 'beauty spot' thing does go back to the Nara period (around 1000 A.D) with roots in Chinese beauty ideals.

This could use more research......

[kuroneko]

Wow! you guys did a good job while i was away lol.

Very good discussion. Im curious about the meaning and background of nakibokuro because i actually have one lol. quite like ritsuko's and maria ross from full metal alchemist. I'm actually half japanese-half chinese, I asked my native japanese father about the mark and anything about it, but he couldn't really say much other than it was nakibokuro. Or it's japanese asian man syndrome, where they don't like to talk at all.

http://panther.is1.okcimg.com/users/902/270/9032712650064709251/p1128410463.jpg
me and this is maria ross from fma
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bc/Maria_Ross_%28FMA%29.JPG

[kuroneko]

ahhhh on my hunt for defitions i discovered
bohan (母斑）is mole or birthmark
hokuro (黒子) is dark mole; face mole; beauty spot; mite
<--- this seems to be a very unique pronunciation of these kanji.... confuses me
so when applied to naki or cry
the ho changes to bo
sooo... nakibokuro is like a crying beauty spot? literallly....

[ProfessorWashu]

Well, that's what the kanji say....

I dunno. You may have to give up on this one. Cultural aspects' meanings aren't always easy to uncover, especially if all the people you can talk to can't/won't talk about them in detail.

I don't even know where to BEGIN to examine this any further for you. Sorry.

[laborpilot86]

I just noticed, Kuroneko-kun, that your Tripod link is broken...

I need to do more reading Japanese culture. I was in the ballpark, though.:)

[ProfessorWashu]

Maybe your grandfather is acting on things he doesn't quite understand himself? I have found that I like blonds, brunettes, anyting but redheads. Why are redheads not attractive to me? I dunno. I just know they aren't. Your grandfather may understand nakibokuro to be an attractive trait withouth knowing why as well. I'll grant that these things are probably societally induced, and thus entire nations can nearly unanimously agree on some ideas (i.e. nakibokuro in Japan and the blond/blue eye loving of the West). But since these things act on a subconscious level, they feel almost natural. So it may be impossible to trace nakibokuro's true origins.

Just putting forth an idea.

[kuroneko]

the chinese beauty ideals was interesting. it would be fascniating to look at which ideals of beauty came from the japanese themselves and which were influenced from china.

for example the blackened teeth of the japanese court women.

[laborpilot86]

The blackened teeth thing I think is Japanese in origin, but anything cultural from the Nara era and earlier is very hard to place a specific 'place of origin' marker on, so tight were the cultural contacts amongst China, Japan, and Korea.