Dono/Sama

[KiraraKim]

I was wondering if anyone can help me with this. I realize dono is an archaic formal suffix that is similar to sama. I am just trying to figure out when it is actually used.

I've been watching Saiunkoku and since it takes place in an early Chinese setting it has been used a lot. Although I tend to only hear older character use this for younger characters. However, it seems the younger character always refer to the older characters using sama.

The only other instance I heard dono in anime is this is how Kenshin referred to Kaoru. But again Kenshin was older than Kaoru.

So what is the actual difference between sama and dono besides one no longer being used?

The wikipedia entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dono really didn't help much!

[animanic_critic]

From my personal experience, -dono is equivalent to -sama, only the major difference is that the former is an archaic honorific suffix while the latter is still being commonly used in modern times. I do not know for certain whether it is official, but -dono is usually used by older people when referring to a younger party, and the opposite for -sama. Plus, -dono can still be used simply as a form of courtesy more than -sama, which is used more for addressing superiority.

Wikipedia did enough explanation actually, but if it helps, Wakan explains that -dono is also used frequently in addressing someone in an envelope. Moreover, it also means 'Mister', although that would bring up a lot of arguments in reply to your post.

[laborpilot86]

Dono is the uber-formal master/servant form of address. It's sort of they equevelant of addressing someone in English as Lord/Lady. It is somewhat archiac though. I've only seen it used in such period anime as Bakumatsu Kikensetsu Iranhoheito and Basilisk.

Sama is also used in a similar context, but is a little bit less formal. You might address your older sibiling as sama, like several of the characters in Gasaraki. Its all about the position in society/family of the addresser and the addresse.

[animanic_critic]

Sama is also used in a similar context, but is a little bit less formal. You might address your older sibiling as sama, like several of the characters in Gasaraki. Its all about the position in society/family of the addresser and the addresse.
Not always true. Most of the time (even almost always) -sama is more formal than -dono. -dono technically means 'lord' but that term does not come in effect in context of modern times anymore, except for rare occasions in written business correspondence. I'll let Wikipedia do the talking more:


Sama
Sama (様, Sama?) is the formal version of san. This honorific is used primarily in addressing persons much higher in rank than oneself and in commercial and business settings to address and refer to customers. It also appears in words used to address or speak of persons or objects for which the speaker wishes to show respect or deference, such as okyaku-sama (customer) or Tateishi-sama (a stone revered as a deity). Additionally, Japanese Christians will refer to God in prayer as Kami-sama. People will also affix sama to the names of personages who have a special talent or are considered particularly attractive, though this usage can also be tongue-in-cheek, exaggerated, or even ironic. Examples include "Tanaka-sama" to refer to a young man named Tanaka who is considered rather handsome by his admirers and the "Leo-Sama" (or "Reo-sama") that has become the media's pet name for Leonardo DiCaprio. Further, sama can be used to express arrogance (or self-effacing irony), such as in the arrogant male pronoun ore-sama ("my esteemed self") for "I". Referring to oneself with -sama is considered to be highly egotistical.

Sama also follows the addressee's name on postal packages and letters and is frequently seen in business e-mails.

It is worth noting that the sama appearing in such set phrases as o-machidō sama ("sorry to keep you waiting"), o-tsukare sama (an expression of empathy for people who have been working long and hard), and go-kuro sama (an expression recognizing someone's labors), though written with the same kanji, is etymologically and semantically distinct from the sama used as term of address.

In the same way that chan is a version of san, there is also chama from sama, typically used for an older person.

Dono/tono
Dono and tono (both written 殿) roughly mean "lord". This title is no longer used in daily conversation, though it is still used in some types of written business correspondence. It is also seen on drug prescriptions, certificates and awards, and in written correspondence in tea ceremonies.

Note: Fans of anime and manga may notice that the use of this honorific is not uncommon, in those media, especially in period works. It often comes up in two forms:

Submissive - Using its "lord" or "master" roots, this form of dono is often considered to show slightly less respect than sama, but more than san. In the anime Tenchi Muyo! Ryo-ohki, the character Mihoshi is addressed by her computer unit as "Mihoshi-dono." In fansubbed anime where military or para-military organisations are featured, "dono" is translated as "sir." Likewise, when used by Himura Kenshin in the anime Rurouni Kenshin when referring to women it is intended to show great humility and respect for the addressee.

Equal - This form of dono is used by a powerful/important person to address another powerful/important person with a great deal of respect without elevating the addressee above the addresser. In the anime, Tenchi Muyo! Ryo-ohki, the characters Seto-sama and Washu address the main character Tenchi as "Tenchi-dono" out of respect for his great abilities. A more blatant usage is in the anime Naruto when Sarutobi addresses Orochimaru disguised as the Fourth Kazekage as "Kazekage-dono" out of equality of both being Kage-level Ninja.

[laborpilot86]

The use of these forms of address in (subbed) anime does give you an interesting window into the way the Japanese deal with social position in thier use of language. Thanks for the wiki entries, anime_critic-sama;) . Language is a great to study social interaction, and anime is a great way to study Japanese social interaction.

[Akito]

anime is a great way to study Japanese social interaction.
Call me weird, but I don't think basing one's views of a whole culture from a bunch of bug-eyed freaks might be such a good idea.

[Tyrdium]

Call me weird, but I don't think basing one's views of a whole culture from a bunch of bug-eyed freaks might be such a good idea.Quoted for winz. I mean, imagine basing your knowledge of the US off TV shows.

Especially because I watch too much Law & Order and Law & Order: SVU. :3

[madpierrot]

Oh course basing your whole knowledge of Japan off of anime would be a really bad idea, I don't someone would actually believe it was all true to life though. However watching anime is a way to pick up on little things about the culture. It certainly won't give you a perfect idea, but someone who watches anime compared to someone who doesn't will certainly have a better idea of the culture I think. Just as long as they realize what parts to ignore.

[KiraraKim]

Alright these pretty much answered my question and they do fit with what I observed

Submissive - Using its "lord" or "master" roots, this form of dono is often considered to show slightly less respect than sama, but more than san.

Equal - This form of dono is used by a powerful/important person to address another powerful/important person with a great deal of respect without elevating the addressee above the addresser.


Well I would at least hope the Japanese know how to use their own suffixes accurately. ;)


I agree with Madpierrot. The idea that you can't learn anything cultural from watching anime is incorrect. However yes I wouldn't use a cartoon to tell me about how people act in every day life. Anime characters are after all usually archetypes and ideals. However there are certain things you can learn from watching anime just as there are certain things you can learn about American culture from watching an American TV show.

[laborpilot86]

The meanings of both sama and dono could have changed over the course of time, languages having a tendency to evolve over the course of time. That evolution of meaning could explain the changes you see in some anime, especially the comparision between a 'period' setting like Basilisk and a 'realistic' contemporary setting like Black Lagoon and/or Great Teacher Onizuka. The words maybe the same, but the meaning has changed over the course of time. A caveat to this would be that just like 'western' pop culture, the Japanese also use thier modern language in period pieces, which can throw things off.

And btw, pop culture, whether it be Japanese or American, can be a very useful window into a society's ideas about itself, especially it's hopes, fears and ideals of behavior and interaction. But thats a whole other thread.:yes:

[KiraraKim]

The meanings of both sama and dono could have changed over the course of time, languages having a tendency to evolve over the course of time.

That is a possibility but I was actually more interested in its historical usage since "dono" is not really used much today.


But thank you for everyone's help.

[madpierrot]

Just to add to the dono/sama talk. As far as it goes now a days this is what I've heard about how it stands.

Dono - serious, used for men only, only really used in letters (actually saying it sounds a bit funny), and perhaps a bit more polite/formal then sama, but they are basically the same

Sama - used more now, it's serious, but maybe not as much as dono, used on letters, tickets, mail with your name on it or someone at a restaurant will say it after your name when your table is ready.