Anybody here a super hero comic fan?

[laborpilot86]

I prefer Marvel myself, especially a good chunk of X-Men

[Zushio]

While I usually prefer the Marvel universe as a whole, my favorite heros are DC. Most notably I love The Green Arrow, at least his modern incarnation, not the old goody two shoes one. Other than that I don't really read super hero books. I usually read titles on the DC Vertigo line, meaning Hellblazer, 100 Bullets, Sandman, Preacher, and other stuff like that.

[Dirty Harry]

I was fanboy jizzing all over DC up until I started reading Civil War. Now going back and reading, Marvel has so many more titles still relevant today and worth reading. >>

Infinite Crisis was fun. But now it's over and one year later, I've liked one spin-off series, Superman, and that's about it.

IT'S OLD HAT.

[laborpilot86]

I do love Marvel, but DC does have a better track record with the animated series (Justice League/JLU, Superman, and Batman:the animated series), and the Vertigo stuff is dead brilliant.

Dirty Harry, you are not the first person to start with DC and then graduate to Marvel, i did too.

Some recommended reading in the Mighty world of Marvel...

Essential X-Men vols. 1-7...these are the stories that made the X-Men the superhero legends they are today

Marvel Visionaries John Bryne Fantastic Four...about five volumes of the best FF stories since the Lee/Kirby days

New X-Men 114-155...Grant Morrison takes a sledgehammer to the children of the X and it turn's out pretty well

Walt Simonsen's run on Thor...some this stuff, from the early to mid 1980s has been reprinted

Essential Fantastic Four vol 3...Galactus, the Black Panther, the Silver Surfer and the amazing art of Jack 'King' Kirby

Any Spider-Man from the period 1962-1974

Avengers:the Kree/Skrull War...nuff said

and this is only a small portion of the Marvel Universe...

[Illjwamh]

The only ones I ever really followed were Spider-man and the X-men, and that was before comics started getting all screwy and having multiple continuities and whatnot. I just can't get into it anymore, though I loved the films. Well, most of them (X3 was kind of a bust for me).

I always liked Batman too, because he's just awesome, but couldn't tell you jack about the canon storlines outside of the stuff everybody knows.

[Dirty Harry]

Or laborpilot, I could read shit that still matters and isn't quite as ugly.

How about some good titles like... say...

Captain America V5: Winter Soldier, what?

Books of Doom: Doom anything = Instant win.

Young Avengers: Marvel's own Teen Titans with a much nicer tie into continuity.

House of M: Batshit alternate continuity shit that ****s up the mutant population. =D

New Avengers: Brian Michael Bendis whut

Ennis' Punisher run: I've started reading this, IT'S GOOD

Bendis/Brubaker Daredevil: omg bendis/brubaker daredevil

THE INCREDIBLE HULK: IN SPACE ****ING SHIT UP

Modern Marvel owns the shit out of old Marvel.

[soundchazer]

I was fanboy jizzing all over DC up until I started reading Civil War. Now going back and reading, Marvel has so many more titles still relevant today and worth reading. >>

Infinite Crisis was fun. But now it's over and one year later, I've liked one spin-off series, Superman, and that's about it.

IT'S OLD HAT.

Dude... I've been saying this all along and you ripped me a new one for saying it.

DC has the iconic heroes, Marvel has the interesting scenarios.

The problem with DC heroes is they are so darn perfect, that it is difficult to keep doing new storylines without them becoming stale after a while. I have to say though, I will always have Flash, the first Firestorm and Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) near to my heart. Those are some of the characters I like the best. No one beats Longshot though.

Edit: As far as new Marvel owning old Marvel, that is a matter of perspective. Yes, comic books have now gone out there in terms of storylines, but it is a progression, just like in cinema. Obviously people who started collecting comics later on will usually find those more appealing, just like new anime viewers prefer new anime over old ones. I like the Claremont and Byrne run on X-Men, Simonson's Thor, Mike Zeck's run on Captain America, Mike Zeck's, and De Matteis mini series "The Last hunt" with Kraven the hunter. MOrrison's run on New X-Men was interesting, but nothing more than a warped version of Claremont's run, copying several storylines.

The progression is interesting... DC invents super heroes and dominates throughout the 50s. Then Marvel invents the superheroic soap operas, with flawed characters with real problems, and dominates throughout the early 80s. The DC, taking a page from Marvel's epic brand, creates Vertigo and publishes the Dark Knight Returns, and dominates for a few years. The Valiant comes along with a tight universe and Image reinvents the presentation and dinamics in the superhero genre, and the 90s became a free far all melee. And it seems Marvel has the relevant stuff now,, ever since Joe Quesada became the editor in chief.

[Dirty Harry]

Dude... I've been saying this all along and you ripped me a new one for saying it.

DC has the iconic heroes, Marvel has the interesting scenarios.

The problem with DC heroes is they are so darn perfect, that it is difficult to keep doing new storylines without them becoming stale after a while. I have to say though, I will always have Flash, the first Firestorm and Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) near to my heart. Those are some of the characters I like the best. No one beats Longshot though.

SORRY SC, YOU WERE RIGHT, OK. But I don't agree that DC's heroes are so perfect, I just don't give a shit when they **** up anymore. >>

And I still think old Marvel pretty much sucks balls. New Marvel has found some cool ways to work off of old Marvel continuity though, and that's guud.

[Erigion]

Marvel's Ultimate stuff is awesome.

[Dirty Harry]

Marvel's Ultimate stuff is awesome.

People like you make me sick. The Ultimate X-Men are even worse than the real X-Men. And the regular Marvel universe has as many if not more good titles.

But yeah. The Ultimate universe is pretty neat, aside from them ****ing over some fine characters and stories from the original universe.

[Erigion]

People like you make me sick. The Ultimate X-Men are even worse than the real X-Men. And the regular Marvel universe has as many if not more good titles.

But yeah. The Ultimate universe is pretty neat, aside from them ****ing over some fine characters and stories from the original universe.
Uh huh, Mr. I Splooge Over The Ultimates.

[soundchazer]

Although I have followed the ultimate universe and it is nicely written and all, I still prefer the originals.

[The Geomancer]

I'm the opposite to some of you, I grew up on marvel and then switched to DC. Though DC never really caught my interest, with a few exceptions (no offense DC fans)

Out of curiousity though, how bad was the old stuff for Marvel and/or DC?

lastly, Ultimate series = win

[LakiDash]

Although currently, Marvel has the upperhand, what with Civil War and my personal favorites, X-Factor(probably one of the best titles in years), and Nextwave(funniest read ever). I do have to say I'm dissapointed at what happened with the New Warriors, but of course it was to kick off Civil War in the firstplace.

However, I'm a DC fan through-and-through. Hal Jordan being my favorite hero(although perhaps keeping him dead would have been a better thing, gave his importance a lot more empahasis). And the Batman mythos and related characters just being my favorite comics to read. I mean, no matter what they do now or in the future, all you have to do is read Dark Knight Returns, Year One, Long Halloween and Dark Victory, and Bats'll never grow stale.

[Tremolo]

As a staunch, die-hard DC fan forevers, I'll still admit that the last few months have been a bit...dull. 52 is really, really boring at the moment, the new Flash title is horribly written, Superman's gone down considerably in quality after the barnstorming Up Up and Away (although All-Star Superman is brilliant), Teen Titans isn't as must-read compulsive as it was, and only two Batman titles (Detective Comics, Batman, obviously) make my eyes light up with glee every month. But with DC deciding to bafflingly interrupt Morrison's so far excellent run with some five-issue story by some other people who I don't care about, the glee is going to be considerably less. But yeah, current Batman is still in a far better state than it was pre-Crisis. Goddamn, it blew. Although Face the Face was balls.

I'm always consoled by Vertigo stuff, though. Lovely, lovely Vertigo.

Marvel are certainly putting out more must-read titles out the moment - Civil War really is genuinely damn good, Captain America is excellent, and The Ultimates is going to go down in history as one of the greatest supherhero comics ever made. I'm planning on reading some of the other titles DH mentioned, because he's been very excited about them on IRC. Marvel heroes don't have the same personal resonance as DC heroes do with me, but as long as the comics are good I don't really care. Good comics are good comics.

Still, there's another title I'm always uber-excited about when each new issue is released. Wildstorm's The Boys. Garth Ennis yeeeeeeeeeaaaaaah.

Who are my favourite heroes? Batman, Terry McGinnis Batman, Flash, Green Arrow (watching JLU and Smallville season six has really got me into the Arrow big time - I'm starting to collecting the current run in TPB form), Animal Man and Spider-Man.

[Mana]

Superhero comics? Not unless you consider Bone a superhero... I do enjoy me some comics from time to time, but I haven't really read superhero-type comics since I was a kid, mostly reading my guy friends' Marvel stuff. By the time I had my own money to spend on sequential art, I had moved on to the world of Manga.

[gdavall2003]

Batman and the X Men are my top titles to read. Batman because he's perhaps one of the greatest flawed heroes and the X Men have great characters and good humour.

[Arkaine Deao]

I prefer X-Men, for one reason and one reason only: Gambit. What could be cooler than a Cajun card-slinger who blows shit up?

[kyubichan]

I like Batman. He's an ordinary human being, except he's a billionaire. X-Men's cool too ^^ I like Rogue and Wolverine.

[Illjwamh]

I prefer X-Men, for one reason and one reason only: Gambit. What could be cooler than a Cajun card-slinger who blows shit up?
I can definately get behind a statement like this. Gambit is awesome.

[laborpilot86]

It's obvious that DH has never read any of the stuff I recommended...

When dealing with Marvel, you have to read the old stuff first. Dark Phoenix Saga, Days of Future Past, the Coming of Galactus, the Kree Skrull War, the Death of Gwen Stacy, Kraven's Last Hunt, Avengers Under Siege, Nick Fury:Agent of Shield are just a few of the golden oldies from Marvel's past. Because Marvel is a fully (for the most part) consistent world, the older stories are still relevant to the day-to-day lives of the heroes. In terms of the art, the art in Marvel from the 1960s is better than the art in DC from the 1980s.

In terms of Soundchazer's arguement of who was better when, my unified theory of superheros goes something like this...

The Age of Supermen (first apperance of Superman, 1938, to the instituion of the Comics Code, 1953-4) Most of the seminal superheroes and concepts were created in this period. On the bad side, many non-white characters were stereotypes, and women were only damsals in distress. Comics dominated American pop culture

The Dark Age (Comics Code, 1953-54 to the First appearance of the Fantastic Four, 1961) Comics relegated to the backwaters of American culture, many companies fold, many characters retired. Superhero comics no better than glorifed picture books for very young children

Marvel Age (Fantastic Four, 1961, to the departure of Jack Kirby from Marvel, 1970) Marvel completely rebuilds superhero concept with realistic characters in somewhat realistic scenarios. Marvel outsells DC by end of decade. Comics slowly rid themselves of racial and gender stereotypes. Beginnings of underground comix

Golden Age (Jack Kirby's depature, 1970, to the crash of second-hand market, 1991-92) Marvel dominates until Vertigo imprint started by DC 1980s.
Comics Code libralized, 1973-74. DC loses writers and artists to Marvel. Claremont/Byrne run on X-Men, 1977-1981. DarkHorse started, 1985. Watchmen, 1985-86. On bad side, comics market slowly shrinks and ages

The Decline and Fall of Marvel (market crash, 1991-92 to the Marvel's bankruptcy, 1997) Disgruntled young creators bolt Marvel to form Image, 1992. Numerous bad stories and Ideas greenlit at both DC and Marvel, mostly for short-term sales growth. Video-games, trading card games and computers further erode comics fanbase. On good side, first half-decent movies and TV series based on superheroes released (Batman:the Animated Series and X-Men most notable)

The Rebirth of the Heroes (Marvel's Bankruptcy, 1997 to present) Comics begin to make inroads into American popculture for the first time since 1960s. Many novels, movies and TV series that have nothing to do with comics mention or use comics as plot device or leitmotif (Chabon's Amazing Adventures of Cavailer and Klay, 2000). Marvel appoints Joe Quesada editor-in Chief, leaves Comics Code 2001. Net-Comics come into being, late 1990s. Graphic Novels claim place as genuine literature (Saptrapi's Persopolis) Movies based on Superheroes and non-superhero titles score box-office and critical success for first time. On bad side, market is further pressed by growth of Manga and Anime in U.S. Some movies don't live up to expectitions (X-Men 3, Daredevil, Catwoman, Elektra, League of Extriodionary Gentlemen)

To my mind the best period for comics is the Golden Age

[Dirty Harry]

Meh, writers today know I'm not going back to read the stuff from 30 years ago, so they include these handy backstories in their work. And without having to read and dislike the original stories, I can get a grasp of what happened and like the concept of it happening alone. That way I don't have to look at any of the ugly stuff.

And looking over the November releases, Marvel vs DC, this is going to be a sad month for DC fans. :(

BUT MARVEL ON THE OTHER HAND?
* Dirty Harry jizzes all over the place.

Only old comics I've considered reading are Kirby comics, cause that stuff seems just out there enough to be entertaining. Especially the old Galactus stuff. But it's really not all that necessary. You can hop into any title today and within a couple of issues and if you're dire, a wikipedia article, you can fully get a hold of what's going on and enjoy the book without worrying about reading the old stuff.

[soundchazer]

laborpilot86:

The decline and fall of Marvel has one name: Bob Harras. He brought the company to its knees by putting sales over creativity in a company that sells creativity.

[Neo-Hunter]

eh, I really enjoy The avaengers and spiderman series of course the batman ones also.

[laborpilot86]

trust me soundchazer, your not the only one who thinks that. Part of the problem for Marvel leading up to the bankruptcy was they had way too many titles, the overexpansion of titles started as early as the mid-1980s.

[soundchazer]

trust me soundchazer, your not the only one who thinks that. Part of the problem for Marvel leading up to the bankruptcy was they had way too many titles, the overexpansion of titles started as early as the mid-1980s.

Hmmm... if you take the number of titles they have now against the number of titles back then, I would be surprised if they had more then. It was not the quantity that was the main problem, but the quality. Until the restructure under Quesada, the only real gamble Marvel took was the New Universe, which had some neat ideas, but was doomed by using a lot of writers and pencilers with zero name or market value. This was the last hurrah for Jim Shooter, probably the best Editor-in-chief Marvel has had other than Stan Lee.

(know more about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Universe)

As a former comic book collector, the lack of quality plus the overuse of gimmicks like multiple covers, foil covers, bagged comics with cards, etc. AND the incredible increase in pricing (.75 cents vs. 2.99) was what brought Marvel (and the industry) down.

[laborpilot86]

Oh, the number of titles a company puts out almost always has an inverse effect on the quality. Marvel had close to 60(all continous releases) titles in circulation during most of the 80s, but this didn't have much impact on the quality because the b-team writers/artists work on the b-team books, and the a-team writers/artists worked on the a-team books. That sitiuation changed when Jim Lee, Rob Liefield, Todd McFarlane, Wilce Portacio left to form Image, and several older creators like Walt Simonsen and Chris Claremont went into 'exile', so to speak. All of these creators left at around the same time (1991-93). As a result, the b-team writers/artists became the a-team writers/artists, so that, by the time of the bankruptcy, every Marvel title was mediocre at best.
The comics from the mid-1990s make for grim reading, where the subscprition offers are concerned: out of the titles listed only Uncanny X-Men, X-Men, Amazing Spider-Man, Wolverine, X-Force, and Cable survived the bankruptcy retrenchment. Considering that titles like Fantastic Four, Avengers, Spectacular Spider-Man, Daredevil, Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, and Incredible Hulk had been running continously for nearly a generation, the 1990s were a diasater for Marvel on so many levels, mostly self-inflicted.

[Zelyhon]

I was a huge fan of comics in my childhood, but stopped collecting for a while. A friend of mine recently got me back in with Civil War and I've started collecting again. I'm not old enough to really remember a lot of the older ages of comics you mention. I think the great majority of my old comic collection comes from the Golden Age LaborPilot pointed out, as that's when I was mainly collecting. I was, and still am, more of a fan of Marvel as a whole. I just enjoy a lot of the characters more and can get behind the events and situations more. And Marvel definitely has the better villains in my opinion.

As far as older comics versus new ones go, I'd have to say that I enjoy both, but am really liking the modern comics a lot at the moment. Civil War is great, as are all of the spinoffs and developments from it. And the oft-neglected Annihilation is of similarly high quality. Both are most certainly well worth reading. My favorite group, as a whole, would be the X-men and the various affiliated groups. Otherwise, Spiderman's always been a favorite of mine.

Oh, and since he deserves at least some mention, got to say that if I had to pick the comic character who amuses me the most, it would be Deadpool. Here's to the Merc with a Mouth. XD

[laborpilot86]

Deadpool is always a :proll:

You should play X-Men Legends 2 and Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Deadpool is funny and useful

[Zelyhon]

That he is. I love how he randomly showed up in the Superman Batman Annual, thus my new sig. If anyone were to suddenly wind up in DC, it'd be Deadpool. XD

I have X-Men Legends 1, but not 2, and was intending to get Ultimate Alliance some time in the near future. I take it from this you reccomend it?

[Mugs]

http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sfirstdeadpoolbook12xv5.jpg