How do you feel about non-Asian manga?

[WookieInMaShoo]

I have read some non-Asian manga with mixed results; in my opinion, most were pretty much average. I was just wondering if anyone else has read any of them.

I have skimmed and read a few Korean manga and they too seem a bit different from the Japanese manga.
Kill Me, Kiss Me seems to be popular and I did end up spending my money on the whole series. I think it was mostly because of my friend who kept saying "it sounds funny..." and being mostly interested in the comedies anyways I ended up buying it. The series was on the average side and didn't really turn out to be very funny and seemed more stuck on the "corny" romance.
Under a Glass Moon is a more Gothic romance that I could never finish. I borrowed the series from a friend (the same friend who liked K2) and couldn't get past the second volume. I couldn't like the story or the art style
PhD:Phantasy Degree is (I think) the better of the three Korean manga I have read, even if it doesn't have a clear story line. The comedy actually worked and the art was something that would grow on me.
Non- Asian manga I have tried include Dramacon and strangely it is about a manga writer and her anime convention trips. It is another romantic comedy, but the writer actually got the comedy parts right and she included plenty of "chibi moments”. The romance bits were not "corny" on my standards and the manga just might be worth a look even if it is just for the comedy moments.
Re:Play was a bit of a mixed bag. The story was nothing original: A band hard on their luck recruits a homeless person with a secret past as their third member. The art style seemed to be jumpy at times, making a female character look less feminine at times and more masculine at the strangest moments. The artist seems to have slight difficulties in making the female characters look like female character at all time. The story does have some surprises at the end and it would be interesting to see how the story develops.
Last but not least, there is I Luv Halloween; it's the only horror comedy that I know of anf it is very different. The comedy borders on the perverted and "Happy Tree Friends" violence. It's a strange mix and the art style fits the concept well by not relying on the "typical' anime art style. The story is a bit of a mystery and has something to do with the town being overrun with zombies, kids trick-or-treating for candy that seems to be almost holy to them, and getting revenge on the people who don't give out candy. Overall, I Luv Halloween is definitely different.

Tokyo Pop seems to be the only manga distributor that deals in non-Asian, or for that matter non-Japanese, manga. Other distributors may have some titles, but Tokyo Pop is the only one I have seen with them.
I was wondering how other people felt about the quality. Some people are saying the American made manga is average at best, and can't live up to the "Japanese standards". It may be because Americans can't copy the Japanese style, I don't know. Let me know what you think.

[Roark]

There's a reason that most companies don't label stuff "non-Asian" manga, and that's because there's a perfectly good category that the stuff goes under already:

Graphic Novels.

In the US market, at least, the term manga is reserved for Japanese graphic novels or serials. This is like walking into a foreign movie specialty shop and going to the "french" or "Russian" section. Calling something like The Magnificent Seven or Kill bill a "non-asian samurai film" seems rather ridiculous, even though both those movies use Kurosawa flicks as prime influences.

All the "non-Asian" manga I've seen are graphic novels that decided to use a "manga style" (whatever that is), whether the style fits or not. There's nothing particularly special about them, except the artists not wanting to develop a more unique style in their sequential art (or wanting to ride on a popularity sales wave).

[silan]

Non-Asian manga I have tried include Dramacon and strangely it is about a manga writer and her anime convention trips. It is another romantic comedy, but the writer actually got the comedy parts right and she included plenty of "chibi moments”. The romance bits were not "corny" on my standards and the manga just might be worth a look even if it is just for the comedy moments.
Dramacon is an underrated series, in my opinion. It's a really humorous look at conventions and the drama (oh no!) that ensues. It's probably the most entertaining "non-Asian" series I've read, and a favorite of mine. Like the Wookie said, the comedy is right on target.

[Zushio]

I have a general distaste for all OEL Manga being published right now, as well as manwha. 90% of what I have read is just people desparatly trying to ape the style and content of other manga, while the remaining 10% is divided between the stuff you find in American comics only with a Japanese art style and pointless works that are little more than masturbatory fantasies for the authors.

[laborpilot86]

I guess the word 'manga' can mean more of style than country of origin now, because thier are many artists especially who work with visual motifs first used in manga (big eyes, etc)

Several artists who have worked for Marvel, DC, and other companies come to mind right away, especlially Joe Maduiara (X-Men), and Pat Lee(DreamWave's Transformers series)

[Roark]

I guess the word 'manga' can mean more of style than country of origin now, because thier are many artists especially who work with visual motifs first used in manga (big eyes, etc)

Several artists who have worked for Marvel, DC, and other companies come to mind right away, especlially Joe Maduiara (X-Men), and Pat Lee(DreamWave's Transformers series)
Big eyes were used long before manga. Look at Betty Boop, Olive Oyle, Bambi, etc. It's hardly a unique trait.

[So Panic.]

The eyes (and the proportions in my opinion, but this is debatable) are what define manga drawing. Maybe not the size but the arrangment. There are usually several balls of white with a black pupil in the middle whereas most of those early cartoons featuring big eyes were simple black dots.

[laborpilot86]

As much as the whole 'big eyes' thing was taken from western cartoons by mangaka such as Tezuka, it has pretty much come to define Anime and manga

[Roark]

Yes, because every single manga character has big eyes :rolleyes:

http://www.otal.umd.edu/wmst498k/kk14/crying.GIF - Crying Freeman
http://www.mangamaniacs.org/images2/lonewolfartsmall.jpg - Lone Wolf and Cub
http://www.inishail.demon.co.uk/uylits01.gif - Urusei Yatsura
http://www.comic.de/manga/mangamuseum/dragonball.jpg - Dragonball
http://encyclopedia.quickseek.com/images/Doraemon-tate-yoko.jpg - Doraemon
http://digilander.libero.it/minikame/lupin/shusai/shusai3.jpg - Lupin III
http://www.japan-expo.com/img/conc/mise_couleurs/IDP_joe2.jpg - Ashita no Joe (cover)
http://utd500.utdallas.edu/~hairston/naus_manga_end6_lg.gif - Nausicaa
http://www.apresleclipse.net/img/screen/v8_ch05_p002.jpg - Berserk
http://poetry.wordpress.com/files/2005/10/harlock.png - Harlock (anime pic, manga scans are hard to come by)
http://gitshirow.supereva.it/gits06/gits06_12.jpg - Ghost in the Shell

[Zushio]

Not to mention the varied works of the Second God of Manga (Urasawa Naoki) have very little in the way of giant eyes, and in fact the characters actually look human.

[laborpilot86]

How stupid of me, I forgot the level of detail and the multitude of genres and sub-genres in manga. That multitude of genres, many of them aimed at women/girls, is one of the main reasons manga are kicking the crap out of American comics, especially the super heroes.

[JigokuHime]

non-Asian manga eh?
well i have got to say the art isn't as good...and sometimes i just can't stand it.

[Roark]

How stupid of me, I forgot the level of detail and the multitude of genres and sub-genres in manga. That multitude of genres, many of them aimed at women/girls, is one of the main reasons manga are kicking the crap out of American comics, especially the super heroes.
A lot of people forget that. It'd be more appropriate to call the "big eyes" thing a stereotype of H-games, since the large majority of those feature big eyed vixens.

[laborpilot86]

Many Korean Mangwa take thier visual cues from the Japanese, and in fact, you'll find many Anime and Manga producers farm out thier more time consuming grunt work to Korean animation companies to save money and time.

[Roark]

Many Korean Mangwa take thier visual cues from the Japanese, and in fact, you'll find many Anime and Manga producers farm out thier more time consuming grunt work to Korean animation companies to save money and time.
Well, yeah. Taking visual cues is one thing. And it's long been known that inbetweener cells were shipped elsewhere for coloring. Key cells are nomrally drawn and coloured by key animators, but inbetween material is farmed out.

Manga, on the other hand, is generally done by an artist and (maybe) an assistant or two. It's why you don't see manga-ka doing lots of series at a time.

[kazamisan]

I dont really care for any of the american media..... and I get a little mad when companies like Tokyopop accept ideas from american people and/or companies that suck.... I mean the people who submit it could at least try to make it look like manga style.... but noooo... they decide to make super dumb looking ones, or they make graphic novels off of a movie that was just released... IT PISSES ME OFF!!!! Im an american, but frankly I think America can rott in hell.... WHY DO THE AMERICANS RUIN EVERY GOOD TYPE OF MEDIA!!!!! manga used to be all asian, and when it was it was sweet..... but then th eAmericans came in cuz there nosy, and tampered with it... NOW ANYTHING THAT IS PUT IN A GRAPHIC NOVEL OR PUBLISHED BY A MANGA COMPANY CAN PASS AS MANGA OR ANIME!!!!! IT IS SOOOO STUPID!!!!

[KiraraKim]

I hate the term OEL Manga. Manga is not a style it is comics from Japan, that's all. Now an American comic influenced by manga is fine but that doesn''t make it a manga.

[kazamisan]

I totaly agree wit you.... you are awesome.... we seem to share the same opinion of how america is dumb for saying that anything is manga or anime....

[Pedro The Hutt]

If you ask me, "Non-japanese manga" is an oxymoron. >.>;; Or is it a paradox...

And I wouldn't make such general statements such as "How America says anything is manga or anime". At least make it "How Tokyopop says" with their "Rising Stars of Manga" competition.

[Mana]

Eh, the OEL manga is a quick trip trying to jump on a bandwagon. Manga is such a culture experience in Japan, has been for an incredibly long time. When you have little children learning things from manga, everyone from elementary school kids to Sarariman reading Shounen Jump in the subways, manga magazines based on smaller subcultures (like Mahjong and Pachinko) doing well, and even manga for parenting, manga about manga, manga produced by the governement... it's insane.

Americans can look at manga and think whatever they want, but if drawing your characters with large eyes and adding "^_^" faces into text is the way to make OEL "Manga," then that's pretty much an insult to the humungous manga industry in Japan, and it's impact on Japanese culture. All of the OEL manga I've seen is little more than a grotesque parody. It would be like another country making a TV show that's a mixture of the Simpsons and Baywatch and saying that it's their version of American TV.

In short, I'm not really a fan of all the OEL manga we've been seeing in the states. It really is just companies trying to milk on a cash cow, as it's a lot easier to pay some poor college student a minimal amount of money to crap out a graphic novel than it is to pay royalties and translation fees and all other stuff to produce a Japanese manga in America, or in the rest of the world.

[WookieInMaShoo]

There's a reason that most companies don't label stuff "non-Asian" manga, and that's because there's a perfectly good category that the stuff goes under already:

Graphic Novels.

In the US market, at least, the term manga is reserved for Japanese graphic novels or serials. This is like walking into a foreign movie specialty shop and going to the "french" or "Russian" section. Calling something like The Magnificent Seven or Kill bill a "non-asian samurai film" seems rather ridiculous, even though both those movies use Kurosawa flicks as prime influences.

All the "non-Asian" manga I've seen are graphic novels that decided to use a "manga style" (whatever that is), whether the style fits or not. There's nothing particularly special about them, except the artists not wanting to develop a more unique style in their sequential art (or wanting to ride on a popularity sales wave).

I hate weekends, I don't have a computer and I could have caught this earlier. What the post should have said was, "Do you feel differently between Non-Asian graphic novels and Asian graphic novels?" But that just sounded a little less interesting than the one I used. I'm not trying to sound like a documentary here. I have to do that every day I write a paper. I know they can all be "lumped" into graphic novels, but I have seen in some book stores that label the area "manga" instead of "Graphic Novel”. But even the Tokyopop site labels them all as "manga", whether they were originally published in Japan or not. Overall I just call them "books", because I'm lazy sometimes. Though they should be in a section called "Graphic Novel" I do prefer them in a section called "manga" because there is always that awkward moment in the book store when I space out and find myself staring into the "erotica" section for no reason. It always happens.

If you ask me, "Non-japanese manga" is an oxymoron. >.>;; Or is it a paradox...

And I wouldn't make such general statements such as "How America says anything is manga or anime". At least make it "How Tokyopop says" with their "Rising Stars of Manga" competition.

I prefer paradox....I just think Tokyopop is trying to get your "average American" more intrested in manga/graphic novels. They may also be trying to make money.

Eh, the OEL manga is a quick trip trying to jump on a bandwagon. Manga is such a culture experience in Japan, has been for an incredibly long time. When you have little children learning things from manga, everyone from elementary school kids to Sarariman reading Shounen Jump in the subways, manga magazines based on smaller subcultures (like Mahjong and Pachinko) doing well, and even manga for parenting, manga about manga, manga produced by the governement... it's insane.

Americans can look at manga and think whatever they want, but if drawing your characters with large eyes and adding "^_^" faces into text is the way to make OEL "Manga," then that's pretty much an insult to the humungous manga industry in Japan, and it's impact on Japanese culture. All of the OEL manga I've seen is little more than a grotesque parody. It would be like another country making a TV show that's a mixture of the Simpsons and Baywatch and saying that it's their version of American TV.

In short, I'm not really a fan of all the OEL manga we've been seeing in the states. It really is just companies trying to milk on a cash cow, as it's a lot easier to pay some poor college student a minimal amount of money to crap out a graphic novel than it is to pay royalties and translation fees and all other stuff to produce a Japanese manga in America, or in the rest of the world.

The reason why I used "non-Asian" is because there are graphic novels coming from other places other than America. I just didn't want to list every country in the world that has produced graphic novels.
I do believe (at times) that America is just trying to make more money. Someday though that "cow" will run out of milk. Then what?



I dont really care for any of the american media..... and I get a little mad when companies like Tokyopop accept ideas from american people and/or companies that suck.... I mean the people who submit it could at least try to make it look like manga style.... but noooo... they decide to make super dumb looking ones, or they make graphic novels off of a movie that was just released... IT PISSES ME OFF!!!! Im an american, but frankly I think America can rott in hell.... WHY DO THE AMERICANS RUIN EVERY GOOD TYPE OF MEDIA!!!!! manga used to be all asian, and when it was it was sweet..... but then th eAmericans came in cuz there nosy, and tampered with it... NOW ANYTHING THAT IS PUT IN A GRAPHIC NOVEL OR PUBLISHED BY A MANGA COMPANY CAN PASS AS MANGA OR ANIME!!!!! IT IS SOOOO STUPID!!!!

Wow...um...America doesn't mess everything up...


Dramacon is an underrated series, in my opinion. It's a really humorous look at conventions and the drama (oh no!) that ensues. It's probably the most entertaining "non-Asian" series I've read, and a favorite of mine. Like the Wookie said, the comedy is right on target.

Ok, this is what I was looking for: People's experiences with "other" graphic novels that are not produced in Japan. I just wanted to know what people thought about them and what their experiences were to make them think that... I got a lot of comments about "Non-Asian","manga", and "big eyes". I didn't even say anything about big eyes. Big eyes are just used to make a character more expressional, or cute, or whatever. All types of animation have them.
Though I am really not a fan of romances, I too feel Dramacon should be given a chance. The story just shows how much anime and manga have affected the U.S. It's ok that some people greatly hate the American graphic novel (for whatever reason). I didn't really state my own oppinion on the matter though. Anything goes for me. I like comics and animation just for the sake of comics and animation. I don't personally care where they come from, just as long as they exist.

[Mana]

First things first, don't double post.

People's experiences with "other" graphic novels that are not produced in Japan. I just wanted to know what people thought about them and what their experiences were to make them think that... I got a lot of comments about "Non-Asian","manga", and "big eyes". I didn't even say anything about big eyes. Big eyes are just used to make a character more expressional, or cute, or whatever. All types of animation have them.

For conversation's sake, I'm going to restrict my conversation to American OEL (Original English Language) manga. I don't know too much about how it is in other countries, and I can imagine it's fairly similar, but I like to restrict myself to things I know.

You wanted people's opinion, you got people's opinion. People talk about big eyes in OEL stuff because manga-inspired artwork generally stereotypes manga art style and uses the big eyes, as well as other standard, and also stereotyped, conventions: sweatdrops, inverted u eyes, etc and so forth. Your "Dramacon" is a good example of this sterotyping.

American OEL "manga" is no different from American comics, it just uses a different style of art form. Instead of feeling confident enough to draw in a more unique, creative style, artists will use the same type of artwork I talked about above, and companies (IE Toykopop) will marget it as "manga" to cash in on the popular subculture.

And it works, too. Because of the Anime and Manga boom in America, Manga are seen a lot more often in bookstores, whereas as non-manga-style American Graphic novels only have a minimal selection in most book stores, as are easier found in actual Comic Shops. If Dramacon had been published in a non-manga style, it probably would only have been sold at comic stores. Would you have found and read it then? I don't know, I don't know enough about you to say one way or the other. Would "Dramacon" have sold significantly fewer books? Most definately.

Also, there is quite a lot of animation - Japanese, American, European, whatever - that doesn't use big eyes. It is, again, a stereotype.

It would, of course, be an exaggeration to say that ALL manga-styled artwork created by non-Japanese is stereotyped and cliched. I've seen some good stuff, most of it by amateurs and not published artists. However, with all that art, while it is definately inspired by manga, is not afraid to be different. Because these drawings are made by people who aren't trying to be professionally published, they don't have to try and fit in as much.

Though I am really not a fan of romances, I too feel Dramacon should be given a chance. The story just shows how much anime and manga have affected the U.S. It's ok that some people greatly hate the American graphic novel (for whatever reason). I didn't really state my own oppinion on the matter though. Anything goes for me. I like comics and animation just for the sake of comics and animation. I don't personally care where they come from, just as long as they exist.

From the summaries I've read of Dramacon, it doesn't interest me. Not because of it being non-Asian, but because the story seems trite and, yes, the art does bother me, at least what I've seen for it. I've turned down Japanese manga for the same reasons, too.

I don't think there are many people who actually hate American comics, but there are plenty who don't read them. Everyone has different tastes.

I don't necesarily think OEL manga is a bad thing, I just haven't seen many occasions when it's good, and the marketing for it is where a lot comes into play. Opening up such a broad topic, you're more likely to get people's opinions on the industry as a whole than individual works.

[silan]

Instead of feeling confident enough to draw in a more unique, creative style, artists will use the same type of artwork I talked about above, and companies (IE Toykopop) will marget it as "manga" to cash in on the popular subculture.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hang on a second, Mana, you sound a bit cynical there. Artists don't feel confident enough to draw their own style, and that's why they use that type of artwork? I don't buy that. Maybe they just like the style. Maybe, like you like a particular way that manga looks, they just like to draw a particular way.

I'm not going to claim that everyone's artwork is original i.e. completely new and unique and like nothing anyone has ever seen before. I don't know how possible that is. But everyone has their own little stylistic tendencies that make their works different from everyone else's, regardless of the overarching art style they use. In that sense, the only people who are truly original are those who created those genres. Everyone else is just copying. :eyebrow:

And even speaking about that overarching art style, you can't say they're unoriginal for using that style. Is someone who paints in an Impressionist style unoriginal for choosing that method to express their ideas? Is the person who draws American comic book style unoriginal?

As for the usage of sweatdrops and other manga stylistic conventions: In manga, the artwork is a means to an end. It's a method to tell a story. When you read a book or magazine, you're not going to understand it if you can't speak the language. It's like that in manga. Using conventions like sweat drops and chibi SD faces isn't unoriginal; I'd say instead that it's merely a way to get the meaning of the story across more easily, instead of wasting room explaining in dialogue. It's an understandable method for anyone who's read a handful of manga.

As far as manga goes, I think originality in terms of artwork comes a distant second to comprehensibility. If you can't understand what the story's telling you, then it's failed, unique artwork or not.

From the summaries I've read of Dramacon, it doesn't interest me. Not because of it being non-Asian, but because the story seems trite and, yes, the art does bother me, at least what I've seen for it. I've turned down Japanese manga for the same reasons, too.
That's really a shame. To be honest, I thought the same thing too when I picked it up; the only reason I bought volume 1 was because it was there and none of my other favorite series had put out a volume recently. I'm glad I did, because underneath that trite exterior is a really enjoyable and well-written series.

I can't say anything about the art. Either you like it or you don't. :cute

[Mana]

There is, indeed, a certain level of lack-of-confidence to be found in heavily-influenced art styles. This is seen quite a bit in Japan as well, where fledgling artists will become assistant-apprentices of more popular Manga-ka and will end up using their Master's style of artwork in their own works.

When there are so many different drawing styles to choose from, and new ones being created all the time by artists blending and molding others' works, why will artists use the exact same sterotypes in almost identical artwork? Why use the same, tired conventions over and over again? If not under-confidence, there is some weakness there.

There is a lot of truth in the statement that all art is stolen. Very rarely will anything incredibly, insanely new and different come about. But, what makes that influence art good is when it takes those themes, those ideas, and puts a new spin on them, takes them in a new direction.

It's perfectly fine to do something like someone else has, as long as you're willing to put that extra step forward and do something with it. Even in manga, there are literally hundreds of different manga styles, and yet, only the basic stereotypes remain.

As far as Dramacon goes, I really wish I had the money and time to check out everything that someone says is good, I really do. Unfortunately, my extreme poorness has led me to being a lot more careful with my purchases, and even things I really do want to buy get passed up on.

[WookieInMaShoo]

First things first, don't double post.



Maybe you could first explain what "double posting" is before I end up irritating people again. If it is posting the same message twice, it was not my fault. The web site logged me out when I tried to post it, then I had to log back in and apparently it was already posted.

[Roark]

Maybe you could first explain what "double posting" is before I end up irritating people again. If it is posting the same message twice, it was not my fault. The web site logged me out when I tried to post it, then I had to log back in and apparently it was already posted.
Double posting is posting twice in a row, regardless of what's said. Our thought is say everything in one post, not break up thing into consecutive posts.

Posting twice because a post exceeds the character limit is acceptable, in most cicumstances.

[Mana]

If you accidently double post, the Edit will let you either edit posts you've already made, or delete posts you want to delete.

[kazamisan]

Wow...um...America doesn't mess everything up...

um.... yeah they do.... Im glad I at least have a little bit of Charoke indian in me.... i would hate to be full white..... i hate the Americans, and Im kinda bummed that I am over halfway American.... the first chance I get, Im movin out of America and in to the best country ever.... JAPAN!!!:dninja:

[laborpilot86]

Good job, Kaz, and good luck trying to become a Japanese citizen. Unless your an athlete or a legit refugee, it ain't gonna happen:rolleyes2

[Mana]

Actually, there are many ways to get a visa to live in a country; school (mostly university level) and work being the two most popular. The most likely, at least for an American, is to get a Bachelor's degree and move to Japan to teach university-level English.

However, this is neither the time, nor the place, to discuss such issues.

[kazamisan]

yeah, I was planing to get a part time job teaching english, then drawing anime while on the part time job..... and if my anime fails, Im gonna try and get a full time job as a middle school english teacher....

[Zushio]

yeah, I was planing to get a part time job teaching english, then drawing anime while on the part time job..... and if my anime fails, Im gonna try and get a full time job as a middle school english teacher....

You know, it's been awhile since we've had one of you deluded, psycho, obsessed people who think Japan is the Garden of Eden and the bestest place to ever exist. I suggest you find out what Japan is actually like before you go over there, it isn't quite as awesome as people seem to think. There are still crimes, still hatred, still stupid people, and get this, anime isn't all that huge there, you know what is? AMERICAN CULTURE, so get ready to be swamped with what you're trying to avoid. In fact, the odds of actually becoming an animator are slim to nil unless you can draw incredibly well or know someone who can. That and there are thousands of people in Japan trying to get thier work animated, and there are dozens of series made every year, usually by established directors or based on manga. So yeah, odds of you actually becoming a director, animator, manga-ka or almost anything other than a teacher are slim. You might have luck on the doujin market if you can draw boobs well.

Anyway, back on topic. The only thing I like that is sorta manga style and western is stuff like Teen Titans, which is awesome, Megas XLR which is possibly the best cartoon ever made, and Totally Spies as a guilty pleasure. I also like that new Di-Gata Defenders show, as it's just weird, and Kappa Mikkey, because it is racisim incarnate and incredibly bad making it fun to watch. Actually, now that I think, your vision of Japan is pretty much the same as that show displays. Perhaps you should watch it.

[kazamisan]

I know alot about japan.... I know so much that I can point out mistakes that american books about japan make.... and about crime, there crime rate is less than half of americas....... and about the drawing, if you are just great at drawing that wont get your manga published, but if you come up with kick ass storylines (which I do) then youve got a pretty good chance of getting something published.... now why you have such a shitty outlook on htings, i dont know, but youre not gonna depress me any.... so please shut up and dont bother me about it.....

[Zushio]

I know alot about japan.... I know so much that I can point out mistakes that american books about japan make.... and about crime, there crime rate is less than half of americas....... and about the drawing, if you are just great at drawing that wont get your manga published, but if you come up with kick ass storylines (which I do) then youve got a pretty good chance of getting something published.... now why you have such a shitty outlook on htings, i dont know, but youre not gonna depress me any.... so please shut up and dont bother me about it.....

So who exactly thinks your stories are "kickass"? Is it just you and your parents? Or is it your friends? Lets do a little test, what is the best story in a manga or anime you have ever seen? Or better yet, send me one of your stories, or post on on this message board and we'll judge them, fair, unbiased judgement of people you don't even know.

For the record, my view isn't shitty, it's realistic. Yes you may be able to point out the various problems in American history books about Japan, but there are problems with every non-American entries in history books. So yeah, the crime rate is a lot lower, but just because they have a lower crime rate doesn't make it a better place. Oh and the Japanese are also quite famous for covering up thier own history. Like they downplay thier participation in WWII, they try to cover up that they invaded China tonnes of times, they also cover up events like The Rape of Nanking, which involved Japanese labs tourturing and exparimenting on Chinese civilians. And again, the big thing in Japan is American Culture, so Disney, American Films, and everything else American is gonna be there waiting.

Honestly though, you really shouldn't give up on American culture, there are some incredible American works in both comics, literature, and cartoons. Read Ghostworld, or Maus, or Preacher, or Bone, or The Sandman for comics, they easiliy beat the pants off of almost every Japanese comic, with a few notable exceptions. American novels also offer a lot, try some Steinbeck, Saberhagen, or any other one that might strike you interst. Cartoons? Hell American cartoons are great, Megas XLR is brilliant in it's poking fun of cartoon (both American and Japanese) sterotypes, Mission Hill one of the finest animated series ever made, Invader Zim for the comedy, or the brilliant if incomplete Cyber Six for thriller action. Really, expose yourself the best American culture has to offer, rather than dismissing it as garbage. Oh and for the record I'm not some gung-ho died in the wool American. I'm a Canadian and damn proud of it, so if someone looking in from the outside can see the value and worth of a country usually damned by the rest of the world, maybe you, an American can take a little harder look.

Oh yeah, and before dismissing Western music as a whole, please listen to some of the better American, Canadian, and English bands, and if you're gonna be worshiping Japanese music, at least listen to some Guitar Wolf, one of the most manly bands of all time.

[Mana]

I'd hate to have to delete your posts, since they theme so well thhought out, but let me stress something I said in my last posts (bolding added for emphasis):

[T]his is neither the time, nor the place, to discuss such issues.

If you want want to continue on this conversation, do it elsewhere, but it has nothing to do with the topic and hand. Any more posts about Kazamisan's moving to Japan in this thread will be deleted.

[kazamisan]

gomen mana-chan.... or san, what ever.... anyway, I told him to end the conversation erlier..... back on topic

non-Asian manga= bad

[Kaioshin_Sama]

gomen mana-chan.... or san, what ever.... anyway, I told him to end the conversation erlier..... back on topic

non-Asian manga= bad

You know there are some great stories from all around the world that are told in the Graphic Novel format. Maybe you should listen to Zushio as he is an expert on quality Graphic Novels.

[Roark]

You know there are some great stories from all around the world that are told in the Graphic Novel format. Maybe you should listen to Zushio as he is an expert on quality Graphic Novels.
I think he meant in the limiting definition of manga, not the "manga= sequential art" definition.

[kazamisan]

I dont know what either of you are talking about ^.^

[laborpilot86]

One of the things I forgot to mention in my previous posts on this thread is that manga are often serialized in compilation magazines, unlike American comics that are published as a stand alone title feature that characters/s

[Edward Foust]

I'm honestly neither here nor there on non-asian manga, to me it's more
about story and art, instead of where it was made.

[Pachinko]

Personally, I've seen quite a few manga created by Americans/Europeans and they've interested me. Somehow, they were lacking a sort of... "aura" that Japanese manga substained. I don't know why, I really don't have a solid opinion on manga. I purely base it on story & artwork.

[kyubichan]

Somehow, they were lacking a sort of... "aura" that Japanese manga substained.

I agree with that. Though I will try anything, non-Asian manga, and even just non-Japanese manga, have a different feel to it. Maybe it has to do with the culture in Japan that makes what they produce "different", but I don't really know. I've learned many things and outlooks are different between the East and the West... all I can say is that I love Asia and the things we make.

[Pachinko]

I agree with that. Though I will try anything, non-Asian manga, and even just non-Japanese manga, have a different feel to it. Maybe it has to do with the culture in Japan that makes what they produce "different", but I don't really know. I've learned many things and outlooks are different between the East and the West... all I can say is that I love Asia and the things we make.
Maybe there are subliminal messages or something.

It's a very strange phenomenon.

[Pedro The Hutt]

I think it's simply because the japanese know manga. >.>;;
Comics that try to mimic manga can add all the bloodnoses and sweatdrops they want, most of them don't know the cultural background to them, for example. (A better example would be the japanese folklore that you have to sneeze when someone's talking about you, which returns in several manga)

So those comic artists can mimic what they see in manga, but in the end you can tell they're mimicking because they lack the cultural knowledge. (Plus most still have that imprint that comes from their native culture's comic style, such as accentuated lips, would-be manga and accentuated lips (and/or noses) are the biggest yuck imaginable in my opinion. XD)

[Dark Lord]

I agree with that. Though I will try anything, non-Asian manga, and even just non-Japanese manga, have a different feel to it. Maybe it has to do with the culture in Japan that makes what they produce "different", but I don't really know. I've learned many things and outlooks are different between the East and the West... all I can say is that I love Asia and the things we make.

You should try reading some manhwa... Its pretty close to japanese manga, if you choose to ignore the name differences and panel organization... Some titles are pretty enjoyable to read as well...

[kyubichan]

^^ Actually, my favorite comic isn't a manga, but a manwha. Ragnarok by Lee Myoung-Jin. Can you suggest any other manwhas that are available locally?

[Dark Lord]

Hmmm... I've only actually just read one title so far... I think it was titled Angel Diary... I found it quite enjoyable... I also caught glimpses of some previews of others...

[drummerhick555]

it angers me...