Torchwood

[fugupinkeye]

So, what do we all think. After 2 episodes of the Doctor Who spin-off, is everybody still on board? I for one thoroughly enjoyed it, and it is great to see Captain Jack again.

Ok. Thoughts, opinions, Lets have it!

[Liegenschonheit]

* Liegenschonheit points to sig. Points to avatar.

I really like it. It has an entirely different feel to it than Doctor Who. It's darker and grittier, and it is more of an adult drama. So far, it seems to have the fantastic writing we've come to expect from the Doctor Who gang, but I think it will be able to stand alone.

And yes, Captain Jack = win.

[soundchazer]

I have just watched the first of the two episodes. I must say it is awesome! Captain Jack has been the best thing that has happened to the Doctor Who mythos since the Cybermen.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/spicy_chiken/storrrrrm.gif

[Pedro The Hutt]

Guess I'll have to make bittorrent my friend so I can catch this... and catch up with Robin Hood, but that's a whole different topic.

[PsychoSaiya-jin]

I seriously need to catch up on this. I think I recall the bbc having a free internet tv service but I can't remember where :)

[Pedro The Hutt]

Well, I caught the first two episodes on BBC2 last night.

I'm wondering... is it desperately trying to be the GTA of sci-fi? "Look at us, we're soooooo controversial!"

Honestly, without giving any spoilers, if it was a standalone series it might've passed off as a cheeky sci-fi series with balls, like the X-files on testosterone. But as part of Doctor Who continuity I feel it's well... a travesty really. I hope this series really shapes up because at this rate I feel I'll give up on it rather soon. >.>;;

[Manga_Creator]

Hmmm Torchwood. Well seeing as Russel T Davis wants nothing to do with the Origional sreise of Doctor but fit little bits and then his new serise giving it a big boost for a younger generation and even America I think it's good for a spin off. This spin off is far more better than K-9 and friends for it's a better Idea. It didnt use a real big main character so it makes a whole new image of Captain Jack Harkness. Agreed I did not like him in the few episodes of Doctor who but Torchwood seems to give me whole new idea of him. The show its self was 100% gold and I like the way they fit things in from the Doctor Who serise but I don't think I would like it as much if its getting the same treatment as Doctor Who over here. All they seem to show is all the episodes of doctor who day in day out and its being done to death on UKGold. So if they did that to Torchwood I think it would put me off other episodes. But hopefully it will be so sucsess ful that they start publishing books that other people write with it not being on TV just like Doctor who because I am a great fan of those books. But Growing up with every episode of the old doctor who in my house and my dad being there to watch it and me to love i, I am delighted to see the new serise and its fantastic spin off. So 10/10 to Torchwood.

Andy

1. ponit though Im not really looking forward to the Cyber-Woman it spoils the effect of Doctor Whos Cyber men with Female voices

[soundchazer]

Well, I caught the first two episodes on BBC2 last night.

I'm wondering... is it desperately trying to be the GTA of sci-fi? "Look at us, we're soooooo controversial!"

Honestly, without giving any spoilers, if it was a standalone series it might've passed off as a cheeky sci-fi series with balls, like the X-files on testosterone. But as part of Doctor Who continuity I feel it's well... a travesty really. I hope this series really shapes up because at this rate I feel I'll give up on it rather soon. >.>;;

How is it a travesty? Just because they guy (Captain Jack) travelled with the Doctor at some point doesn't mean he has to be a part of the same mythos week after week. I see it as a different show within a Universe where one character is the only link between two series.

I seriously don't know what you are expecting, but I was not looking for the Tardis, nor to have the Daleks roaming around every episode.

Manga_Creator: the Cyber-woman is one of the few characters related to the Doctor Who series. This was the person in charge of Torchwood London who got "assimilated" by the Cybermen but was able to retain a bit of her own personality.

As for Russell T. Davies not wanting to have anything to do with classic Doctor Who, I think that is just rubbish. Dedicating entire episodes to Daleks, Cybermen, Autons and having K-9 and Sarah Jane is not enough? Just because he modernized the series doesn't mean he threw away the past.

[Tremolo]

Hmmm Torchwood. Well seeing as Russel T Davis wants nothing to do with the Origional sreise of Doctor but fit little bits and then his new serise giving it a big boost for a younger generation and even America I think it's good for a spin off.

Eh? What do you mean? It's a continuation of the original series, which RTD is a massive fan of. I utterly fail to see your point.

And you're far too young to be watching a TV series with security guards fapping over CCTV footage and girls kissing. You should be in bed, young man! :p

Manga_Creator: the Cyber-woman is one of the few characters related to the Doctor Who series. This was
the person in charge of Torchwood London who got "assimilated" by the Cybermen but was able to retain a bit of her own personality.

I think he's referring to an upcoming episode of Torchwood, SC. Episode four to be exact, but I won't say anymore.


I love Torchwood by the way, but I won't really go into much detail. I'll start going into more detail with the third episode Ghost Machine this Sunday, so you've got that to look forward too! ;)

[soundchazer]

I think he's referring to an upcoming episode of Torchwood, SC. Episode four to be exact, but I won't say anymore.


I know... and from what I know from other sites, it is the same character.

[Tremolo]

I know... and from what I know from other sites, it is the same character.

Well...I can't say I remember Yvonne being black. >_>

[soundchazer]

Well...I can't say I remember Yvonne being black. >_>

hmmm... good point. Maybe I haven't been to the right sites for a while now.

[Pedro The Hutt]

Furthermore, I don't think Yvonne could somehow find the tech to female-ify her cyberbody. >.>;; (And on top of that I wholly believe that she too got sucked into the void)

As to what I was expecting, something similar to Doctor Who but different, kind of everyday events of Torchwood Institute, Doctor Who on a smaller scale, so to speak. But most of all something in the same age category. Not something that desperately tries to come across as more "mature" but instead comes out looking like it comes from the mind of an oversexed 16 year old sci-fi nut. Since frankly, I almost get the impression that the whole aliens and the Torchwood institute itself takes a backseat to the characters their personal issues and more importantly what happens between the sheets. (Almost every member of Cardiff Torchwood is not straight, fine, I'm all for adding other walks off life into sci-fi but it feels farfetched if they're suddenly the majority, which further boosts the whole... 16 year old hormonal fanfic feel)

And well, personally I feel that if you're going to make something part of Doctor Who continuity, that it should share more than a few characters and locations. (Oh and a hand) No wait, scratch that, it could for all I care share no characters at all, but it should at it's core still feel like Doctor Who. (Kind of like how, despite being more serious than the movies, KotOR at the end of the day still feels like Star Wars, which kept it's references to adult themes mainly to the occasional tongue-in-cheek reference)
Now I will give it a few more chances, it might still be trying to find it's way. But if it keeps on pouncing on topics that the main series has always shyed away from for the sake of showcasing how badass and controversial it is, I might just give up on it.

Edit no.2: Of course, it might be a decent series in it's own right, but I'm just saying that according to my own tastes, it's not a good Doctor Who spin-off series. So far at least.

[Liegenschonheit]

I like that they aren't trying to make a second Doctor Who series. Thats part of the reason that "Rose Tyler Defender of the Earth" was canned. It was too much like the original show but without the Doctor, which wouldn't work at all. Who wants to watch Doctor Who without the Doctor?

Torchwood on the other hand is an entirely different show within the same universe, like SC said. I think that having it be more mature was a good move, because it has an entirely different atmosphere than Doctor Who and doesn't strike me as a lesser show because of the Doctor's absence. As for it being oversexed, give it a chance. The first episode had nothing to do with sex. The second episode was about an alien that needed sexual energy, so yeah, sex. Big deal. I don't think it is trying to showcase itself as being controvercial, just that it IS different, and NOT a family oriented show, so why should it shy away?

[Ieyasu]

What the hell are you guys talking about?

Throwing in a lesbian kissing scene, some foul language, someone getting shot in the head and interspersing one episode with sex scenes doesn't make a show mature. In fact, the writer's idea that sex, violence and bad language makes a show mature is, in itself, pretty childish.

This is just a rather poor copy of Doctor Who, without the charm of the title character, the acting ability of the previous two Doctors, the quality of writing or a decent concept to propel it forward.

I didn't watch it regularly, but whenever I did watch Doctor Who, I enjoyed it. Mainly because they managed to put some decent dialouge and brilliant acting (I'm looking at you David Tenant) into a series that could easily have been total and utter shite. Not only that, but they actually had some decent concepts for a show every once in a while. The epsiode I have in mind when I say this is the one with the planet imprisoning Satan.

Take away the good acting and the clever dialouge, and what do you get? Yes, shite. Or, in other words, Torchwood. They didn't even manage to establish a decent concept.

Alien management group in Cardiff? Nice move guys. The accents alone make the show almost unwatchable.

An alien who feeds on the energy produced by orgasms? Can you say, "Feeble excuse for sex scenes to justify the so-called maturity of the show"?

Lead character who brings to mind Captain Scarlet? Check

Now, while I was fairly critical of the first two episodes, I have to say the preview for the third intrigued me. I'll probably watch it, and I'm hoping that after a rocky start, the show picks up.

Fingers crossed, but I'm not expecting much.

[soundchazer]

What the hell are you guys talking about?

Throwing in a lesbian kissing scene, some foul language, someone getting shot in the head and interspersing one episode with sex scenes doesn't make a show mature. In fact, the writer's idea that sex, violence and bad language makes a show mature is, in itself, pretty childish.

Right... I pity your future children, because I won't allow mine to watch this "pretty childish" stuff because it is not childish at all! Maybe the word you were looking for was uninteresting.

This is just a rather poor copy of Doctor Who, without the charm of the title character, the acting ability of the previous two Doctors, the quality of writing or a decent concept to propel it forward.

Again... and I think all 4 of the people in favor of it will agree here. We are not thinking of Torchwood as a copy of Doctor Who, or not even as a spinoff, but rather as a series that happens within the Doctor Who universe.


Take away the good acting and the clever dialouge, and what do you get? Yes, shite. Or, in other words, Torchwood. They didn't even manage to establish a decent concept.

* soundchazer shrugs

To me a concept of an organization that deals with Aliens using their technology without knowing how to reproduce it is actually quite amusing. Not everyone can have the great intellect of the Doctor... and oh... by the way... did I tell you I'm not considering a Doctor Who show?

Alien management group in Cardiff? Nice move guys. The accents alone make the show almost unwatchable.

Maybe to you... it makes no difference to me. They all sound British to me.

An alien who feeds on the energy produced by orgasms? Can you say, "Feeble excuse for sex scenes to justify the so-called maturity of the show"?

It sure as heck is more interesting than an Alien who feeds out of the energy of people drinking beer in a pub.



What I find rather amusing is that the older people in this thread are the ones who are happy about the show while the younger guys have a problem with it.

By the way... what is a 15 year old doing watching this show to begin with?

[Tremolo]

Alien management group in Cardiff? Nice move guys. The accents alone make the show almost unwatchable.

I don't really care about the rest of what you said, because I completely disagree anyway and SC has tackled why very well indeed, but I have to take issue with that comment. If I was Welsh, I'd be pretty damn hacked off at that, seriously. I mean, it's not the prettiest accent in the world but I rather enjoy it, and I really don't think it makes it unwatchable. Hell, the only person with a Welsh accent in Torchwood itself is Gwen - Jack sounds American, and both Toshiko and Owen have British or London accents. As for other people appearing, they hardly sound like farmers from the deepest darkest Welsh valleys do they? And besides, Cardiff is pretty trendy nowadays!

Honestly, think before you make such a daft, sweeping comment. It really does you no favours and brings down your argument quite a bit.

What I find rather amusing is that the older people in this thread are the ones who are happy about the show while the younger guys have a problem with it.

Probably because at that age teenagers are far more gauche, blunt and like to do things down, I suppose. Considering I only recently used to be one, I know full well. Honestly, I don't want to see an adult orientated series full of boring dialogue, a sterile atmosphere and lots of brooding like Spooks. I like the fact Torchwood is fun, and has fun with certain concepts. No matter how "childish" someone would brand it, you still wouldn't show lesbian scenes at 7:00 in the evening.

Honestly, I think Torchwood is rather similar to Joss Whedon shows, or even Farscape. A good mix of humour and drama and outlandish concepts, but hardly for a young audience.

[soundchazer]

You know... I would like to add something else. The sex-charged show had to be presented right away. If you want to kill any potential comparison to Doctor Who, it takes this type of story to do so. That was a brilliant way to put some distance between the two shows. Well... that and the fact that sex sells.

I was also happy on how explicit they were here. U.S. television would have a real problem showing this type of material (including the steamy girl on girl action) on well established channels. I blame Bush! ;)

[Ieyasu]

Right... I pity your future children, because I won't allow mine to watch this "pretty childish" stuff because it is not childish at all! Maybe the word you were looking for was uninteresting.

Well, I definitely wasn't looking for uninteresting.
Let's go with immature.

Again... and I think all 4 of the people in favor of it will agree here. We are not thinking of Torchwood as a copy of Doctor Who, or not even as a spinoff, but rather as a series that happens within the Doctor Who universe

Well, you can look at it anyway you want, doesn't change he quality of the show.

Maybe to you... it makes no difference to me. They all sound British to me.

Well, if you were more familiar with UK regional accents, you'd notice that the welsh accents in this show are horribly and completely over done.

It sure as heck is more interesting than an Alien who feeds out of the energy of people drinking beer in a pub.

I'm not sure what the point of referencing an irrelevant british stereotype is, but I'll conceed, it is more interesting that that. Not that thats any excuse when they probably have a few more ideas than they're going to use for this show. I'm just pissed this wasn't one of them.

What I find rather amusing is that the older people in this thread are the ones who are happy about the show while the younger guys have a problem with it.

By the way... what is a 15 year old doing watching this show to begin with?
What are you, my mother? >>

___

Honestly, think before you make such a daft, sweeping comment. It really does you no favours and brings down your argument quite a bit.

Political correctness brigade, AHOY!
The Welsh accents in this show could have been far weaker. Any accent at all done as strongly as the Welsh accent was done in Torchwood would detract from the show, I would say the same if the accent was Scottish, Irish, whatever.

So kindly don't be so condescending.

Probably because at that age teenagers are far more gauche, blunt and like to do things down, I suppose. Considering I only recently used to be one, I know full well. Honestly, I don't want to see an adult orientated series full of boring dialogue, a sterile atmosphere and lots of brooding like Spooks. I like the fact Torchwood is fun, and has fun with certain concepts. No matter how "childish" someone would brand it, you still wouldn't show lesbian scenes at 7:00 in the evening.

Actually, Spooks is also shite these days.

Honestly, I think Torchwood is rather similar to Joss Whedon shows, or even Farscape. A good mix of humour and drama and outlandish concepts, but hardly for a young audience.

Meh, Joss Whedon shows > Torchwood. Plus, Whedon is capable of handling mature themes without resorting to overt sex and swearing.

My main peeve with Torchwood, is that no matter what you say, if you take away the sex, violence and swearing, it's not at all mature.

It takes more than f-words, girls making out and bullet holes in people's skulls to make a show mature. I don't know how else to put it.

[silan]

Alien management group in Cardiff? Nice move guys. The accents alone make the show almost unwatchable.
Actually, I think it's amusing that they always come back to Cardiff in some way, throughout the new Doctor Who series and then here in Torchwood.

I've enjoyed this show so far, and I'm looking forward to the next episode. It still has snappy writing, no matter what Ieyasu said, and I like Captain Jack Harkness' character too much to be happy if they'd left him hanging out in space somewhere in the future. Of course, I'm waiting for an explanation on how he got back to Cardiff in the "past" (or "present," however you want to consider it). But I figure that'll come as the series goes on.

All in all, I think this is one of the better spin-offs I've seen, because Torchwood is clearly moving in a different direction than Doctor Who. Most spin-offs try to recreate the exact same formula as the original series, and it never works. So I'm glad they're not trying to do that here.

Edit: And ha ha ha, Ieyasu. For some reason I find it really funny when a kid tries to look all wise by declaring that a show isn't mature enough for him. Hee hee...

Sure, it takes more than sex, violence, and swearing to make a show mature. And if you hadn't been so fixated on those (oh you cute little immature child, you) you'd have noticed there's more to Torchwood as well.

:love:

[soundchazer]

Well, I definitely wasn't looking for uninteresting.
Let's go with immature.

Keep in mind that not all entertainment has to be Shakespearean in nature. Sometimes something a little less dense is what the doctor ordered (pardon the pun)



Well, you can look at it anyway you want, doesn't change he quality of the show.

Which is a nice blend between comedy and action and a spinkle of sci-fi. That works for me... I don't need to watch epic battles every week.



Well, if you were more familiar with UK regional accents, you'd notice that the welsh accents in this show are horribly and completely over done.

Still doesn't mean much to me. I still hear British English. Can't help you there.



I'm not sure what the point of referencing an irrelevant british stereotype is, but I'll conceed, it is more interesting that that. Not that thats any excuse when they probably have a few more ideas than they're going to use for this show. I'm just pissed this wasn't one of them.

Read my post above.

What are you, my mother? >>

No... just a concerned poster. I'm sure your mother would agree though.

[Tremolo]

Political correctness brigade, AHOY!
The Welsh accents in this show could have been far weaker. Any accent at all done as strongly as the Welsh accent was done in Torchwood would detract from the show, I would say the same if the accent was Scottish, Irish, whatever.

So kindly don't be so condescending.

But I'm saying they're not that strong, that's the whole point. And only one of the main characters has a Welsh accent, so I don't really see your problem. Some of the people posting in this thread aren't even from the UK, and they don't have a problem, so I think it's something of a non-issue to be perfectly honest.

And I'm not being politically correct, but I don't see the issue with British TV programmes being set somewhere that isn't London or even Manchester or Merseyside. There's more to the UK than just those places, and I don't see why Torchwood shouldn't be set in Cardiff. It's a change, innit?

Actually, Spooks is also shite these days.

I always thought it was shite.

Meh, Joss Whedon shows > Torchwood. Plus, Whedon is capable of handling mature themes without resorting to overt sex and swearing.

I don't know why that's a problem though. People swear in everyday life, something Torchwood is trying to tap into. People have sex in everyday life too, apparently. It's also just trying to set itself apart from Doctor Who, which I think it's done very well. Day One was clearly there to say "this isn't Doctor Who, and kids shouldn't be watching". Was it a bit over the top? Yeah, but it looks like it'll be settling down after this if the episode guide is anything to go by.

Besides, you need to remember that early on in Whedon shows, we had in Buffy a lame episode about a witch, a giant praying mantis, that one where Buffy gets a boyfriend and in Angel, another sex-addicted demon, a magic stick and a haunted apartment. It wasn't until later that those shows became great, so whatever.

I also think it's far too early to condemn the series. It might become a modern classic by the time episode thirteen rolls around and everything's settled down and the writers know what works and what doesn't. You never know. And it's a bloody rare thing when a series starts firing on all cylinders right off the bat. Even hugely consistent series like, say, Battlestar Galactica had a clunker or two earlier on (Water immediately comes to mind). The series might not work for you yet, but it might do later. I know plenty of shows that I didn't become a fan of until they hit late season two, so I really think it's better to leave the truly damning words until later when you've actually watched a few more episodes and the series has got into its groove.

[Ieyasu]

Edit: And ha ha ha, Ieyasu. For some reason I find it really funny when a kid tries to look all wise by declaring that a show isn't mature enough for him. Hee hee...

Sure, it takes more than sex, violence, and swearing to make a show mature. And if you hadn't been so fixated on those (oh you cute little immature child, you) you'd have noticed there's more to Torchwood as well.
:love:

Oh? Well, I have to say I find it funny as hell when an adult makes obnoxious comments because their worldview doesn't allow for fifteen year olds who have different tastes to them.

I also find it hilarious when they prove themselves even more immature than the afore mentioned kid by talking down to someone because of their age.

But, hey, I console myself with the fact that you're going to die first.

[Mana]

The semi-flaming/baiting in this thread has to stop. Debate the good/bad points of the show all you want, but leave the personal bits out of it, or the thread's getting closed.

[silan]

Oh? Well, I have to say I find it funny as hell when an adult makes obnoxious comments because their worldview doesn't allow for fifteen year olds who have different tastes to them.

I also find it hilarious when they prove themselves even more immature than the afore mentioned kid by talking down to someone because of their age.

But, hey, I console myself with the fact that you're going to die first.
You are cute.

But Mana's right. I apologize for offending you by talking down to you. Maturity is clearly a sore subject, so I'm willing to let it go if you are.

Anyway, I do enjoy Torchwood, but for different reasons than I enjoy the Doctor Who mythology. I think they work well by being in the same universe, but they're completely separate entities.

I like the characters... well, most of them. Owen honestly creeps me out.

And am I crazy, or is Gwen that maid from the first season, who channeled those creatures living in the gas lamps?

[soundchazer]

from wikipedia:

"The series stars John Barrowman as Jack Harkness, one of the Ninth Doctor's companions from the 2005 season of Doctor Who. Police officer Gwen Cooper is played by Eve Myles, who previously appeared as Gwyneth in the Doctor Who episode The Unquiet Dead.[10] It remains to be seen if Myles's two similarly named characters are linked in any way."

You are right Silan. This is the same actress.

[silan]

I knew it! That gap in her teeth doesn't lie.

I wonder if they'll end up being linked (as in, related).... but that wouldn't really make sense, considering what happened to Gwyneth.

[Tremolo]

Mmm, Gwen. I think I might've fallen in love with her when she told that Weevil to "stop playing silly buggers". I rather like The Gap too, I'm afraid.

And Owen is pretty creepy, but I'm sure we'll find out why later. I like how episode one inferred that the Torchwood team were all being corrupted by the alien technology they worked with, and people seemed to take real issue with the scene where Owen sprays himself with that love potion thing in the bar. I'm pretty sure there'll be consequences somewhere down the line, especially as we learn more about him. The next episode seems to be Owen-centric, so we'll have to wait and see.

[Ieyasu]

You are cute.

But Mana's right. I apologize for offending you by talking down to you. Maturity is clearly a sore subject, so I'm willing to let it go if you are.

Tch. Just couldn't resist it could you?
Sad.

Anyway. Next episode of Torchwood will be a chance for it to redeem itself in my eyes. Previews have me cautiously optimistic, so heres to hoping it's a good one.

[Pedro The Hutt]

You and me both. >.>;; Man, I don't look for a day and the topic explodes.

I'll just retouch the whole "It doesn't have to be like Doctor Who" thing. If you announce a series as a Doctor Who spin-off, market it as a Doctor Who spin-off and regularly reference Doctor Who in it, then, yes, it probably should be like Doctor Who since you've already got the Doctor Who fans hook, line and sinkered. And plenty of them would probably expect it to be as such. (And not to mention many youngsters who got introduced to the new series would want to watch it as well)

Especially when dealing with something with a legacy such as Doctor Who's you really ought to be more careful than recklessly adapting it for the GTA-generation.
(I mean, Torchwood could've been just as entertaining without all the depressing angst, suicide, violence and sex, more of which is in the pipeline if you can go by all the snoging you saw in the series trailer)

And is it honestly that hard to accept that opinions can differ? No need to trash down upon those who don't share your views on what makes a good series. I can see why Torchwood is liked, I just wish it wasn't attached to Doctor Who at the hip.

[silan]

I'll just retouch the whole "It doesn't have to be like Doctor Who" thing. If you announce a series as a Doctor Who spin-off, market it as a Doctor Who spin-off and regularly reference Doctor Who in it, then, yes, it probably should be like Doctor Who since you've already got the Doctor Who fans hook, line and sinkered. And plenty of them would probably expect it to be as such. (And not to mention many youngsters who got introduced to the new series would want to watch it as well)
I don't get it. Yes, it's a spin-off; it's in the same universe with the same character that was in Doctor Who. They marketed it as a spin-off because the people who would be most interested in that spin-off would be the fans of the Doctor Who TV series. It makes sense from a marketing standpoint, because then they can get a solid base in the ratings without having to pull in an all-new audience.

But none of that means that the show needs to be exactly like the Doctor Who series. If it was, would you want to watch it? It'd truly be just a copy, then, rather than a series that can stand on its own merits.

And if it was merely a copy, why would anyone need to watch it? It would bring nothing new to the Doctor Who table.

Especially when dealing with something with a legacy such as Doctor Who's you really ought to be more careful than recklessly adapting it for the GTA-generation.
That's kind of silly, isn't it? I mean, I'm not a huge Doc Who fan, as in someone who's followed the series since its ancient beginnings... heck, I wasn't even alive back then. But from what I understand, the series has never been afraid of doing its own thing and adapting to each generation. That's what's made the series so timeless and timely. A series that won't change and adapt is only doomed to die.

(I mean, Torchwood could've been just as entertaining without all the depressing angst, suicide, violence and sex, more of which is in the pipeline if you can go by all the snoging you saw in the series trailer)
Angst? I don't remember any angst.

And is it honestly that hard to accept that opinions can differ? No need to trash down upon those who don't share your views on what makes a good series. I can see why Torchwood is liked, I just wish it wasn't attached to Doctor Who at the hip.
I think they've done a good job of separating it from Doctor Who.

[Pedro The Hutt]

How is the difference between "similar" and "identical" so hard to grasp?

I just reason that when making a spin-off of something, you first and foremost want to appeal to the people that like the original. So it should, in my opinion, have similar themes and values. Not be the polar opposite of what the original is. Forsaking a coherent plot in favour of riding a wave o' controversial topics.

And yes, while Doctor Who has done it's own thing, it on the other hand did keep to the ideals the BBC set at the time. In the 60s and 70s most female companions were after all, nice and docile women who screamed on cue so the Doctor could note the impending danger. And almost all good guys, and all first six incarnations of the Doctor spoke perfectly good "neutral english", or the so-callled BBC english.
On top of that the series has, first and foremost been family entertainment. (Even though kids in the sixties allegedly watched it from behind the couch, they watched it regardless)

So I don't personally find it a good idea to make a spin-off something that outdoes Buffy in the swearing and pointless snogging department.

(Bottom line: I would've liked Torchwood a whole lot more if it kept it's basic concept, but did keep it aimed at a similar age group and more or less preserve the same morals.)

[silan]

I just reason that when making a spin-off of something, you first and foremost want to appeal to the people that like the original.
I think that it's that kind of thinking that gets sequels and spin-offs into trouble. When they try to make something specifically to appeal to the people who watched before, it inevitably fails. Why do most sequels suck? Because the creators try to make something that is just like the original story. They try to get the same formula and the same feeling, and it's not the same. It can't be the same. I know you're talking "similar" over "exactly the same," but it still applies in my opinion.

No one ever said that Torchwood would be similar to Doctor Who in that sense. From what I remember hearing about it, it was always said that it would be more adult-oriented. It's a spin-off, but it's not geared to exactly the same audience, merely to the adult portion of that audience. So of course it wouldn't be the same with respect to language, sexuality, and violence.

Basically, they saw a concept that might be interesting to expand on, and they wanted to do it in a different way. If you don't like the end result, there's no need to watch it. After all, it's only in the same universe as Doctor Who. You don't need to watch it to watch Doctor Who.

Frankly, I'm all for what they're doing here. It's interesting and it's new. If it was a Doctor Who clone - excuse me, if it was similar to Doctor Who :suspiciou - then I don't know why I'd be watching it. I could just watch the original then.

[Tremolo]

Torchwood is aimed at adults mainly because they want to tell darker storylines and do things Doctor Who can't do. What's good about the series is that it can stand alone very easily, but it works on a slightly different level if you know your Doctor Who - but it's not essential to enjoying the programme.

I'd much rather it was like this then say, like Stargate Atlantis, which is just as boring and formulaic as SG1 and doesn't stand alone whatsoever. I remember watching the pilot and not having a clue what was going on, so I like the fact that Torchwood CAN stand on its own and do different things aimed at a non-fan audience just as much as the Doctor Who fan audience. What's the point of a spin-off if it doesn't explore new territory in the same universe? Angel got it right by not being teen-orientated like Buffy and telling different kinds of stories (darker, more complex), but also managed to stand on its own from the series that spawned it, something that Torchwood has done just as well.

Oh, by the way, the Doctor Who connection wasn't even mentioned in all the pre-publicity or the trailers, just as a "new sci-fi series from the pen of Russell T Davies" or words to that effect. So, enjoy it for what it is, or just don't. It's about time the UK started making more series like this.

[soundchazer]

Pedro:

Your line of thinking is the reason why I never followed Star Trek after Next Generation. It was pretty much more of the same. Similar, not identical, but still predictable enough because it followed the same type of premise.

A good example of how companion series work well are The X-Files and Millenium. X-Files was the one for the general audience (more like teens+), and Millenium was the adult show. It worked wonders because a separation in themes was done from the get go.

[Tremolo]

What I've always loved about the Doctor Who universe is how diverse it is, how the series can tell any kind of story in any tone or style. I have no problem with Torchwood tackling the darker, more adult side of the coin, but keeping the same optimistic streak, and the forthcoming Sarah Jane Investigates being lighter and aimed squarely at kids. I love Doctor Who because it's not boring and uniform like Star Trek, and I'm glad its spin-offs reflect that.

[Erigion]

Torchwood is aimed at adults mainly because they want to tell darker storylines and do things Doctor Who can't do.I hope these "darker" story lines start showing up soon cause all I've seen is unfunny MIB and a plot stolen from hentai shows, without the nudity.

I'd much rather it was like this then say, like Stargate Atlantis, which is just as boring and formulaic as SG1 and doesn't stand alone whatsoever.Atlantis wasn't supposed to stand alone, it was supposed to directly replace SG-1 because Sci-Fi wasn't going to pick SG-1 up for another season. SG-1's story lines had been pretty much tied up and there was a 2 hour first episode to transition into Atlantis.

[Liegenschonheit]

Wow. Okay, this topic got kind of stupid fast. Okay, some people don't like it, fine. Some people want it to be more like Doctor Who, okay, but would you want to watch Doctor Who without the Doctor? I wouldn't. The Doctor clearly makes that show. Honestly, Torchwood is pretty much what I expected. In Doctor Who, Captain Jack lightly touched on the whole sex topic, when they casually made mention to the fact that he goes both ways. There is always the issue of where exactly he was hiding his gun when he was completely naked and pulled it out. It doesn't suprise me that a show featuring Jack is a bit more risque in that direction.

As for the much debated "sex episode", the sex didn't really concern me that much. I was more impressed with how they used the premise to bring out Gwen's character and the human side of the show. I suppose for people who aren't used to seeing that sort of thing, the sex might be hard to get past. Though I'm kind of confused as to why Jack is obsessed with the Doctor's severed hand.

Anyway, this show has a lot of promise, but if you don't like it no big deal. Just don't watch it. They've already come out and said that the Doctor will never appear on Torchwood, so you won't need to see it in order to follow Doctor Who at all. Captain Jack will be appearing more on Doctor Who though, they were talking about bringing him back for the entire season, but since Torchwood came out, they said he'd be back for several episodes including next season's finale.

[Pedro The Hutt]

I'm with Erigion however. There is a difference between a "mature and dark" story and a "testosterone driven" story. You can have one without the other, contrary to popular belief. (And how is it, that if a few people disagree with the common opinion that the topic becomes stupid? Forums live thanks to disagreement. >.>;; If there was no disagreement there would be no need for "discussion boards".)

[Liegenschonheit]

No, I didnt mean people disagreeing was stupid, I meant that bickering is stupid. You can disagree all you want, doesn't make me enjoy the show less :P

[Pedro The Hutt]

Nor do I intend to make you like the show less. XD I'm just trying to get across why I personally don't like it. It must be quite fortunate to like Torchwood. I was really looking forward to it. XD Oh well, can't win'em all. Roll on the christmas special of Doctor Who!

[PsychoSaiya-jin]

I just saw the first 2 eps last night and I enjoyed it.
Handled badly, alot of the show could've been seen as taking far too much from other sci-fis; Captain Jack Harkness has now become Captain Scarlet and psuedo-Docto,. Ep2 was mostly made of an episode of The Outer Limits.

It's the way the show goes that makes it good. Although, I have to admit, I'm a bit thrown by the Cardiff-angle. Now I know how Americans must feel :)
The only thing that doesn't quite sit right now is some of the characters, one of the blokes on the team is genuinely creepy.
On the up side, their 'Butler' looks like Quitin Tarantino. If he has a monologue about how he doesn't like to tip or tells a long joke I'll be rolling on the floor.

[Tremolo]

1.03. Ghost Machine

I hope with this episode people can stop complaining about Torchwood being "immature" and "testosterone driven".

Really terrific stuff, all told. Fantastic character development mixed in with some genuine spookiness and an intriguing mystery that keeps you guessing right up to the end. I'm still digging this series a good deal.

Dunno what to make of the firing range scene, though.

Oh, and I predict that next week's will be the first classic of the series - I hope I'm not disappointed.

[Yurika Star]

Episode 4 was... CACK!

The concept was ok, but how it was performed was shocking.

What really peeved me off was the fact that instead of killing someone the Cyberwoman would be distracted by anything, her target is 10 centimeters away... BUT WAIT SOMEONE IS SAYING MY NAME! I better turn around and ignore this foe who is with in an arms reach of me. That happened too much, alot of things were just too stupid for me to find this episode enjoyable. Also some not great acting.

[Tremolo]

Shame, I absolutely loved episode four. I thought it was easily the best so far, for many, many reasons that are too tedious to go into. The script could've done with a bit of a polish (the "hard-on" line made me cringe), but it was fantastic overall and I can't wait to see what the remaining episodes have in store.