View Full Version : Code Geass
Ieyasu
10-09-2006, 09:29 AM
CLAMP + Mecha = Code Geass
Here ends the sum total of my knowledge about this series.
EDIT: Well, apparently even mentioning fansubs is a no-no.
Anyone care to enlighten me as to the nature of the show beyond what I've already stated?
Tremolo
10-09-2006, 11:08 AM
I'd like to point out that before any CLAMP fans leap upon this in a great frenzy of hormones and excitement that they're only responsible for the character designs and nothing else.
That aside, it's a Sunrise mecha show with rather Gundam-like robots and politics. In fact, it looks pretty much just like the more recent Gundam series like SEED, only with CLAMP character designs. Regardless, I'm a big fan of Sunrise and the director Goro Taniguchi, despite Gun X Sword, so I'm looking forward to the sub of this hitting immensely.
ANN (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=6704)
Official site #1 (http://www.geass.jp/)
Official site #2 (http://mbs.jp/geass/index2.html)
loner
10-09-2006, 02:50 PM
From what I heard, there is a lot of nationalistic jingoism going around in this series. I'll judge the series according to its own qualities and values when I see it, but well, consider me cautious while going into this.
And yeah, Clamp circle jerk for some I guess, but from the screenshots I saw, the character design is not typically Clampish, old style or new style. In fact, it seem to be some kind of synthesis of their old and new style. And some of their characters remind me of Gundam Seed, which I can't say is a good thing, though the fact that the director is not named Fukuda relieve me somewhat.
Ieyasu
10-09-2006, 02:58 PM
Well, I've seen the first episode and managed to catch the general drift thanks to my flawed Japanese.
I'm in love with the Op, hate the Ep, and am still rather unsure about the bits in between. As for the nationalistic stuff, I haven't seen anything too overt just yet. I feel it might be more patriotic than nationalistic. But still...
Hard to tell from just this one episode. Could go either way.
Kuzu Ryu Sen
10-09-2006, 02:59 PM
Plot Summary: Japan has been invaded and conquered by the Britannic Empire. Japan are now known as "Area 11" and it's citizens known as "elevens." The Britannic Empire takes away Japan's autonomous power and imposes it's rule. The Britannic Empire enforces it's rule through the use of 'Nightmares'. The Empire's rule has never faltered, but cracks have begun to show...
Haha, no potential for jingoism there whatsoever eh? They could at least be more creative than the "Britannic Empire."
Ieyasu
10-09-2006, 03:01 PM
Plot Summary: Japan has been invaded and conquered by the Britannic Empire. Japan are now known as "Area 11" and it's citizens known as "elevens." The Britannic Empire takes away Japan's autonomous power and imposes it's rule. The Britannic Empire enforces it's rule through the use of 'Nightmares'. The Empire's rule has never faltered, but cracks have begun to show...
Haha, no potential for jingoism there whatsoever eh? They could at least be more creative than the "Britannic Empire."
At least they didn't give into the temptation to make the Chinese the agressors...
Britannic Empire suits me just fine. Despite being British, I do love a good UK based evil empire.
*coughs in Michael Moorcock's general direction*
Kuzu Ryu Sen
10-09-2006, 03:05 PM
Nah, they could never ever fathom the thought of being subjugated, in any scope, by the Chinese.
Britannic Empire suits me just fine. Despite being British, I do love a good UK based evil empire.
But see, just because this new place is called Britannia Empire it doesn't mean it is Great Britain, and apparently plenty of people forgot to click on pause when a certain shot focused on a map about the conflict:
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/8979/codegeass01large02mk5.jpg
That's one big British empire which happens to resemble a lot to North America! Go go observation skillz!
Kuzu Ryu Sen
10-09-2006, 06:19 PM
We don't know if North America is a Britannian colony or Britannia itself. However, that's a lot of arrows mimicking the US actions in the Pacific Theatre of WWII. Pearl Harbour and the Philippines are marked as staging grounds for an invasion of Japan, Taiwan, and South Korea. Subtlely, thy name is not Japan.
Ieyasu
10-10-2006, 09:08 AM
But see, just because this new place is called Britannia Empire it doesn't mean it is Great Britain, and apparently plenty of people forgot to click on pause when a certain shot focused on a map about the conflict:
That's one big British empire which happens to resemble a lot to North America! Go go observation skillz!
Looks like someone forgot to click pause when Lelouch was taking a looksie at his parking ticket and when they showed the flag of the Britannian Empire.
The currency in use is pounds, the currency used by Britain, and the flag somewhat resembles the Union Jack.
Go, go jumping to uniformed conclusions!
PsychoSaiya-jin
10-10-2006, 03:53 PM
And yeah, Clamp circle jerk for some I guess, but from the screenshots I saw, the character design is not typically Clampish, old style or new style. In fact, it seem to be some kind of synthesis of their old and new style. And some of their characters remind me of Gundam Seed, which I can't say is a good thing, though the fact that the director is not named Fukuda relieve me somewhat.My guess is that the original clamp designs were reworked by the Sunrise animation team. As for Fukuda, he's been good at the pre-SEED stuff. I'm personally guessing Bandai had too much input in GSD.
I haven't seen much aside from some trailers but things look pretty good. The mecha seem to be of the same vein as Eureka 7.
silan
10-11-2006, 11:48 AM
Whoa-ho-ho! Alright, this show has got my attention.
Driven by curiosity, I watched the raw. I understand Japanese just enough to catch the general drift of everything that was going on.
Animation is very good. The CLAMP designs bother me a bit, just because the bodies of the characters all have to be so long and anorexic-looking, but I can look past that.
Opening theme, I can't really remember despite having just heard it. The ending theme I despise already, although I like the animation during it. Musically, it sounds like a cassette tape played in reverse. Who knows. Maybe it is in reverse.
Plotwise, this seems another generic revenge-against-the-overarching-evil-tyranny series, complete with underground terrorists and brutal suppression of innocent civilians. However, Lelouch is a really, really interesting character already. And the last few minutes of the first episode were wicked, especially that last shot of Lelouch's face.
I just want to get this fansubbed now, so that I can catch what I missed before dialogue-wise.
Count me in for the next episode at least!
Tremolo
10-15-2006, 09:33 AM
Finally, the first episode is out subbed, and it's rather gosh-darn fabbo.
Very slick, great eye-candy, a cool main character, promise of excellent mech battles to come and fantastic music (FLOW provide another great OP). You can completely tell it's a Goro Taniguchi series, too. Lots of weird swishy energy CG moments and the characters appearing in black and white for no particular reason is straight out of his s-CRY-ed, only better.
It's basically a proto-Gundam and doesn't have anything we haven't seen before, but it's good and I'll probably watch to the end.
Ieyasu
10-15-2006, 02:05 PM
Just caught the second episode's raw
Lloyd, Lancelot and Lelouch. The three things I enjoyed most about this episode.
soundchazer
10-15-2006, 03:03 PM
Ah... as much as I liked the first episode, this could end up being another mecha tease. Still, Sunrise has more often than not delivered the goods, so I'll keep a close look on this one.
The character designs are pretty good, and the backdrop to the story is very nice. I hope they don't screw it up.
Apolyion
10-15-2006, 03:44 PM
I liked it as a first impression, but much of the episode was spent on background and setup so there's a possibility it will end up being mediocre. Most of the usual ingredients for a mecha anime are present - mysterious girls with weird powers, secret weapons, government/military conspiracies, overwhelming odds, evil empires, oppressed citizens, and of course, teenagers. Some of whom have or acquire weird powers. And who are on opposing sides in the upcoming war.
Still... it'll all be in how they use those ingredients going forward.
silan
10-15-2006, 04:28 PM
Just caught the second episode's raw
Lloyd, Lancelot and Lelouch. The three things I enjoyed most about this episode.
Wow. That episode was awesome. Lelouch's abilities will prove very useful in the future (mwa ha ha). I can't wait for the next episode.
silan
10-21-2006, 07:41 AM
Alright, I know I'm double-posting, but it's been almost a week, soooo....
I just caught the raw of the third episode. For this one, we see the resolution of the cliffhanger from episode two. Then, we return to the school environment, which shouldn't be much of a spoiler since Lelouch is a student. I'm kind of tired of the whole school-kid-with-powers-no-one-knows-about premise, because that seems to account for about 85% of these types of shows.
Thankfully we've got Lelouch, whose personality definitely changes some things up.
His wicked owning of that prince or duke or whatever the heck he was is just downright awesome. Clearly, Lelouch is a rarity: a school kid with powers no one knows about who's ruthless enough to use them. And that makes all the difference in the world, because if he was another typically whining character, I'd have dropped this series in a heartbeat. Let's just hope he doesn't develop that whine over the course of the series; I optimistically think he won't.
As for the person who compared him to Light from Death Note: I agree in one sense, because they have those abilities. But that's where the similarities end. Light always did what he did out of boredom and some twisted desire to be on a level with God. At least Lelouch has an actual motive for what he does, and a reason to be the way he is.
I really hope Lelouch achieves his goal. Whatever the case, that journey to his goal will be interesting to watch.
AlterGenesis-X
10-21-2006, 11:45 PM
It took me a while before I had the willpower to watch this show and I'm fairly pleased. I've been waiting for another mecha to get into since Eureka 7.
kurah
10-31-2006, 05:26 PM
I really like the direction this series is going. Lelouch appears to be a fascinating character and lanky arms/legs aside, I'm really digging this. At first, i thought it was gonna be a typical mecha anime, but there's been plot turns i would NEVER expect them to do and they did.
Shadowmage
11-05-2006, 07:16 PM
Episode 1-3
Awesome! Out of the many shows of 2006, this is undoubtedly the only one I would call pure entertainment. I'm impressed at how well Sunrise pulls in the audience without resorting to shallow characters or trite stories. Few mech shows have shown as much potential as Code Geass has. While the series could have gone so awry in so many places, I'm impressed at how well they managed to pull all the necessary elements together to make a darn good introduction.
Episode 4
How interesting, typically the morally upright person is the main character, but this show opts to take the perspective of the rash, morally ambiguous character instead. Lelouch reminds me of Kira (Death Note), but instead of an ideal, vengeance is his fuel.
As I sidenote, when I saw Zero, I half of me was tempted to yell out "Char!" while the other half wanted to yell out "Sayaiman!" I'm sorry, but the costume is the epitome of corniness. Oh well, it's a minor quibble considering how amazing this series has been.
I agree. This is not a bad series, if you look past the political references.
Episode 4 was pretty well executed, the intense scenes had a sense of urgency in them, which is good. And like Shadowmage, I also find Lelouch to be a little similar to Kira in that regard, that they are not your typical nice guy main male lead, they both have something they really want to accomplish, and are willing to sacrifice lives for it. A keeper from what I have seen so far. :)
Tremolo
11-06-2006, 12:27 AM
Episode Four.
"WATASHI WA...ZERO!"
Anyone else getting a vaguely V For Vendetta vibe, now? Also, who else thinks Jun Fukuyama's work as Lelouch helps really make this series? Cuz I do. He's brilliant.
Magnificent stuff. After the relative safeness and mediocrity of Zegapain, Sunrise have finally turned out a real balls to the walls, quality mecha series. The fact it's more of a revenge drama is the icing on the cake.
Apolyion
11-06-2006, 08:25 AM
I sort of think that the corny costume is the direct result of Lelouch being pressed for time - he made a comment about having to hurry up and save his friend.
I definitely agree it's refreshing not to have the brash goody-two-shoes as the lead for a change, and that it goes a long way to "make" the show. Lelouch is an extremely calculating character who does assign a value to human life - and that value isn't higher than the value of succeeding at his mission. Further, some lives matter more to him than others (his sister's, his friend's). And he's honest about it all.
IMO this makes him a lot more human - more realistic and believable as a rebel and as a war fighter. It's always required a lot of suspension of disbelief on my part to watch shows where nobody (or almost nobody) dies and where the main characters don't get their hands dirty. And it's even worse in the cases where they are getting their hands dirty (or indeed, are drenched in the blood of their enemies) but still spout moralistic drivel as if they weren't killers.
Definitely a keeper, and coming just in time where I was saying that the mecha genre needed something fresh in the "facelift" thread.
silan
11-06-2006, 11:39 AM
I definitely agree it's refreshing not to have the brash goody-two-shoes as the lead for a change, and that it goes a long way to "make" the show. Lelouch is an extremely calculating character who does assign a value to human life - and that value isn't higher than the value of succeeding at his mission. Further, some lives matter more to him than others (his sister's, his friend's). And he's honest about it all.
IMO this makes him a lot more human - more realistic and believable as a rebel and as a war fighter. It's always required a lot of suspension of disbelief on my part to watch shows where nobody (or almost nobody) dies and where the main characters don't get their hands dirty. And it's even worse in the cases where they are getting their hands dirty (or indeed, are drenched in the blood of their enemies) but still spout moralistic drivel as if they weren't killers.
Exactly. Exactly. That's why I'm a fan of this show right now, because the main character is interesting and human.
I'm glad more people are jumping on the bandwagon for this one. I think this will prove to be a very interesting series as it goes on, and I like to see lots of people discussing it.
PsychoSaiya-jin
11-06-2006, 01:04 PM
The things I'm liking the best sofar are the chess references (White Knight, Black King, etc), Lelouch as a brilliantly flambouant anti-hero and the lovely Karen :3
I'm already a big fan of the director and the mecha-designer and the story seems to be improving greatly with every passing episode.
How long is this show planned to be?
I just realised there's alot of naming after British regions. From the Glasgow mecha to mr. GUILFORD (Hahaha).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_Geass_-_Lelouch_of_the_Rebellion#Knightmare_Frames
Bloody briliant
[edit: I feel like I want to have a sig of this now :D]
Maverick
11-19-2006, 09:07 AM
Well, episode 6 was certainly a change of pace. Still enjoyable, though I was a little taken aback at first.
This and Death Note are clearly the two best series I'm following at the moment, and it's interesting to look at the similarities between their respective protagonists.
[Edit: Episode 6, not 7...]
How long is this show planned to be?
Well much to my dismay all signs point to 25 episodes:
http://anidb.info/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=4521
I honestly hope it goes to 50, 25 just seems to short for what could be a very epic mecha anime.
KiraraKim
11-20-2006, 12:48 PM
I still need to watch episodes 5 and 6 but I've been pleasantly surprised with the first 4 episodes of this series.
I am also happy to hear it is only 25 episodes. Not that 52 episodes would have been too much. But at least I know with 25 episodes the series won't drag on forever.
Apolyion
11-20-2006, 01:16 PM
Well, a 25 episode series with the epic scope that this one has can go one of two ways.
In the first way, things are paced quickly but steadily, time is used wisely, and the writing is tight. There's not much filler or waste, and we as viewers are satisfied even if we would have liked to see more.
The second way, which is unfortunately a lot more common, is that the show wastes a lot of time, loses its focus, wanders around romance plots in the middle and near the end, and then ends things in a rush that leaves us as viewers disappointed.
Here's hoping we see the first - Lelouch's scheming, anti-hero character gives me a lot of hope for that. He doesn't seem like the type to set his mission aside to chase skirts.
PsychoSaiya-jin
11-20-2006, 11:54 PM
By the looks of things sofar, this show seems like it might be able to pull off that epic story within 25 episodes. Why? Because they've come straight in with a running start.
I hope I'm right :)
Ieyasu
11-22-2006, 11:07 AM
Sweet.
I wander off for a bit, come back, and everyone loves Code Geass.
Watched up to episode six. My favourite show this season, definitely.
Well, a 25 episode series with the epic scope that this one has can go one of two ways.
In the first way, things are paced quickly but steadily, time is used wisely, and the writing is tight. There's not much filler or waste, and we as viewers are satisfied even if we would have liked to see more.
The second way, which is unfortunately a lot more common, is that the show wastes a lot of time, loses its focus, wanders around romance plots in the middle and near the end, and then ends things in a rush that leaves us as viewers disappointed.
Here's hoping we see the first - Lelouch's scheming, anti-hero character gives me a lot of hope for that. He doesn't seem like the type to set his mission aside to chase skirts.
After watching episode 7, I am so glad to say that it seems like this show will be of the former and not the latter, which is very fortunate. Episode 6 may have seemed semi-fillerish, but episode 7 pulls it right back on track. My favorite show of the season along with Kanon and Bokura ga Ita. :)
Episode 8:
Another intense episode. The OST has been amazing, not to mention the way the episode ended and went straight into the ED, which fits the theme of this anime perfectly.
As for the episode itself:
Interesting, very interesting. We will have to see what Cornalia will try to do against zero now that he had made his public declaration that he will fight against any strong forces that bullies the weak. As prideful as Cornalia is, she definitely can't stand the fact that her citizens were saved by a rebel like Zero, so this will definitely get her really fired up.
Looks like next week will be episode 8.5, a recap.
Apolyion
11-25-2006, 07:50 PM
I love the ED, I like most of Ali Project's work but this one fits the show perfectly and really captures their "signature" sound well.
Haven't seen 8 yet... looking forward to it though.
I love the ED, I like most of Ali Project's work but this one fits the show perfectly and really captures their "signature" sound well.
Definitely.
And I also think we need to give Flow some credit as well. The OP "Colors" really gives off the epic feeling that this anime tries to depict. Overall I am very pleased with the way this anime has used music to add to the overall viewing experience. Good soundtrack is just something that a good action anime (well, for that matter, any good anime) must have.
laborpilot86
11-25-2006, 11:57 PM
It's interesting that a show like Code Geass got released outside of Japan.....
One thing people who watch GitS:SAC might miss in the dubbed is that the U.S is referred to in the original Japanese as the 'American Empire'. Draw your own conclusions... but all of the American characters in the show are 'unflattering' to say the least
The map showing the 'invasion routes' is actually quite accurate in a strategic sense. The best way to attack the Home Islands is through the central Pacific and the Phillipiness, which is what the allies did during WWII. The writer/s of the series probably figured that any other invasion of Japan from across the Pacific would follow those same routes as Gen. MacArther and Adm. Nimitz back in the day
Just because a show has a plot in which Japan is threatened by foreign forces does not mean the show is nationlistic in of itself. Watch and see how the foriegn characters are depicted, especially physical features. If they are depicted using the same stereotypes as the U.S pop culture of the 30s-50s (thick glasses, constant smile, malign expression, stilted speech pattern etc.) then you'll know the politcal persusion of the writer/designer
PsychoSaiya-jin
12-02-2006, 08:21 PM
I think you are looking too deeply into this "foreigner" angle. The CLAMP designs made use of the imperial and aristocratic stylings associated with "Britain" are well implemented. At the end of the day, this is all just fantasy.. just very cool :)
Ep8 was fantastic. Lelouch's plans are pushing ahead in a pleasingly theatrical fashion. But I do have to wonder if this is the path he had planned all along or if he is also changing as a person too. Either way, I believe he may gain alot of support from this new direction.
It also looks like the Geass may hold even more potential than what we know of sofar. I look forward to the coming developments.
Apolyion
12-03-2006, 05:39 PM
Even the recap - 8.5 - was handled well in this show. By putting the backstory relevations to date into proper chronological order and providing a few new bits of information, it not only recapped it also helped to clarify and explain what it was recapping.
I have a much clearer and more organized picture of Lelouch's motivation now, for example.
I'm not a big fan of recaps in general, but if you're gonna do one, I'd say this is how it ought to be done.
Completely agree with Apolyion.
There had been a lot of stuff happening in the first 8 episodes, and a lot of info were given to the viewers as well, but whether we caught all of it or not is another matter. For those who didn't rewatch the previous episodes, chances are, this recap probably did a great job of filling in the holes that you missed during your first time watching. It also gave a bit more background info on lulu and the crime scene and stuff like that. Overall a great recap, it came at the right time too, giving the viewers a little breather before going for the next ride again.
Ieyasu
12-11-2006, 04:14 PM
Up to Episode Eight and still a highly enjoyable show.
The Holy Britannian Emperor is just the icing on the cake. He's such a cool antagonist. His sentiments on equality are all the more believable because they make sense, in a twisted sort of way.
Also, Zero continues to be the most badass character is quite a while.
Here follows the best sequence of events in Code Geass thus far:
Soldier: What happened in here?!
*Zero shoots soldier*
Zero: Err, yeah. All your superiors realised the futility of their actions and comitted suicide. Yep.
*Soldiers bleeds*
Zero: Euphemia, I killed your brother, not because he was an inhuman murderer, but because he was the son of the Holy Britannian Emperor. Which reminds me, so are you...
*Zero points gun at Archetypal Kind Hearted Young Girl*
Building starts to sink
Zero: Darn
*Zero blows up building*
Apolyion
12-11-2006, 07:48 PM
Zero was always going to spare Euphemia in ep 8, not only because he'd promised Cornelia he would, but because if he didn't have her alive as a hostage to cover his escape later, Cornelia's advanced Knightmares would have taken him out.
Lelouch continues to be a total badass, episode 9 was another great one for his development even though it focused more on Kallen.
PsychoSaiya-jin
12-13-2006, 08:22 PM
<3 Kallen..
laborpilot86
12-15-2006, 11:20 AM
I'm downloading this show as fast as i can....:headbang:
Episode 10 was good. It continues to focus on its strong point, and that's the suspense from the action and the plot, which the show continues to explore. Looks like there will be something major happening next ep from the looks of the preview, so can't wait to see it. :)
Ieyasu
12-17-2006, 12:46 PM
This episode (10) has firmly established Code Geass as one of the better anime I've seen in recent times.
The plot just keeps on grabbing, and the fights are actually entertaining to watch. Not to mention the characters are more than just plot devices to get the mechs fighting each other...
A prediction or two:
1. Jeremiah isn't dead. 'Cause he's in the OP and ED, so he's unlikely to die so easily.
2. Cornelia will be attacked by Toudou and his comrades, forcing her followers to engage them in order to buy enough time for her to escape. The Order of the Black Knights catches up to Cornelia and are on the verge of capturing her when...
3. Eupehmia deploys Suzaku and the Lancelot to back her up.
4. Guren mk.II and Lancelot fight, probably resulting in a deadlock, while Lelouch and Cornelia play a game of cat and mouse.
And that's about all I can tell just from the preview. As for Suzaku coming into contact with C.C., I have no idea what that's about. Or rather, I have one idea, I just don't like it.
PsychoSaiya-jin
12-17-2006, 03:05 PM
And that's about all I can tell just from the preview. As for Suzaku coming into contact with C.C., I have no idea what that's about. Or rather, I have one idea, I just don't like it.
I have a feeling there may be more than one C.C.
Ieyasu
12-17-2006, 03:57 PM
I have a feeling there may be more than one C.C.
That would make sense, unless C.C. makes a habit of talking to herself.
But I doubt that another of her kind would appear as soon as episode eleven.
Apolyion
12-18-2006, 01:23 AM
That would make sense, unless C.C. makes a habit of talking to herself.
But I doubt that another of her kind would appear as soon as episode eleven.
Why not episode eleven? The show's nearly half over by this point - it sure doesn't feel it, it feels like it could keep running indefinitely with all the material it has and the excellent manner it's being directed in, but things are going to start heating up towards a denouement (who is C.C., what is Geas, etcetera) and climax, and probably sooner instead of later.
Lelouch continues to make the show. Thanks to him it works when it shouldn't, it positively soars where it could easily have fallen flat on its face. It does such an amazing, refreshing thing to a mecha war epic, to have a calculating, cynical, amoral bastard like him as the lead instead of someone like Suzaku.
PsychoSaiya-jin
12-19-2006, 09:25 AM
I've just noticed the level of quality voice acting in this show. Even nameless members of the Order have established seiyuu playing them. Not to mention Norio Waka is the King of Britannia himself!
Out of curiosity;
Do you think Lelouch has realised that Susaku is the pilot of Lancelot or does he still believe he is just another grunt soldier? ;)
I've just noticed the level of quality voice acting in this show. Even nameless members of the Order have established seiyuu playing them. Not to mention Norio Waka is the King of Britannia himself!
Out of curiosity;
Do you think Lelouch has realised that Susaku is the pilot of Lancelot or does he still believe he is just another grunt soldier?
I definitely don't think so, because he has not got any info about the Lancelot pilot so far. That might change in the next episode, however.
Shadowmage
12-22-2006, 02:54 PM
I wonder if she will enter the fray.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y257/Shadowmage_Shin/SNAP.png
Interesting, the title of episode 14 is "Geass vs. Geass."
Ieyasu
12-22-2006, 04:29 PM
She will enter the fray in episode 12, if my powers of foresight serve.
Lelouch doesn't know anything about the pilot of Lancelot yet. He refers to it as "That white armour" when he encounters it at the hotel-jacking, so I doubt he knows Suzaku pilots it. He's just pissed that Lancelot messed up his plans in Shinjuku.
Geass vs. Geass?
*Shudder*
I don't like the sound of that. I really hope it's not Suzaku who gains Geass.
Shadowmage
12-22-2006, 05:44 PM
She will enter the fray in episode 12, if my powers of foresight serve.
Episode 13 is called "Shirley and Gunpoint," so there is a fifty-fifty chance that you are right. (Your odds are greatly increased by the fact that she was never shown in the episode 11 preview)
Geass vs. Geass?
*Shudder*
I don't like the sound of that. I really hope it's not Suzaku who gains Geass.
Code Geass has always been very predictable. The superb execution and Lelouch are the only elements that keeps this show from being generic.
*Shadowmage bets ten bucks that Suzaku will get eventually get powers.
EDIT
Episode 11
Sunrise sure knows how to do robot fight scenes. As usual, Lancelot is overpowered, but so is Karen's new mech.
The slight glimpse into CC's past is quite interesting. I need to get the subbed version before I can truly comment on her exchange with Zero, but from what I picked up, it basically outlined the importance of CC's true name (which is not given to the audience). Ironically enough, the flashbacks reminded me of one of Gainax's acid trips. I guess this show can now be called a "psychological" anime.
Oh, Suzaku doesn't get any powers, but...
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y257/Shadowmage_Shin/vlcsnap-15679.png
Good job Ieyasu.
PS If Jeremiah gets the Geass, I'm quitting this anime.
Ieyasu
12-26-2006, 12:46 PM
I just had a thought. Geass vs. Geass doesn't necessarily mean anyone else is gaining that power. We know C.C. can use Geass, and if she can, others of her kind can. The more I think about it, the more I find it unlikely that any of the currently established characters will gain Geass.
Suzaku is just fundamentally incompatible with an ability that manipulates others like that. It clashes too much with his character, so he won't be getting it.
If Jeremiah were to get it, what would he do with it? He's a soldier in an army, his speciality is Knightmare combat, where Geass is useless. On top of that, how would having Geass help him get his revenge against Zero? Giving it to him would be pointless. Same applies to pretty much everyone else on the Brittanian side of things. The power is only useful for subterfuge, so only a rebel group like the Black Knights, or someone acting alone would benefit from it.
Anyone other than the above else having it would just be ridiculous. Can you imagine what would happen to Lelouch if Shirley could make him do what she wanted?
Just caught episode eleven, and this is really a great episode. Nice mecha combat, the plot is advancing nicely and most of the characters get at least a little development. Too bad the battle of Narita ended in a stalemate though. On a completely unrelated matter, you know what I found funny? Kallen being jealous of C.C.
I really enjoyed the battle between the Guren and the Lancelot. I was also pleasantly suprised to find that the Guren is more than capable of matching the Lancelot on every level. It's just as fast, just as strong and has the radiation wave, which can counter all of Lancelot's attacks excepting a blast from the VARIS. I'd say the inevitable rematch is too close to call. At long range, the Guren is too agile to be hit with the VARIS, but at close range, the Lancelot is in danger of being caught by the Guren's right arm. Not to mention all of Lancelot's close range weapons can be countered and destroyed by the Guren. On the other hand, the Guren doesn't have any long range attack capability, and in close range it becomes vulnerable to attack from the VARIS, the one thing Lancelot has that it can't counter. Or rather, it can counter it, but it puts the right arm out of comission, and without the right arm, Guren loses.
All in all, best episode so far in one of the best series I've seen in quite a while.
Shadowmage
12-28-2006, 08:56 AM
I just had a thought. Geass vs. Geass doesn't necessarily mean anyone else is gaining that power. We know C.C. can use Geass, and if she can, others of her kind can. The more I think about it, the more I find it unlikely that any of the currently established characters will gain Geass.
C.C. cannot use the Geass; this is why she needs Lelouch in the first place. She has incredible healing powers, the ability to evoke lost memories, and the power to endow another with the Geass. If any of the established characters do get the Geass, I'm sure their fate will be destruction .
PsychoSaiya-jin
12-28-2006, 05:04 PM
By the looks of things, it is possible C.C. merely has the power to awaken abilities already in people, much like memories.
I really liked episode 11. The last half was great, where we finally get some development between Lulu and CC. I like how the story keeps unfolding, and more and more about the characters is revealed during the battles. Even though when you think about it, that's the expected way to do it, I still feel CG has done a pretty good job with it.
Shadowmage
01-01-2007, 09:25 AM
By the looks of things, it is possible C.C. merely has the power to awaken abilities already in people, much like memories.
If this is the case, the other Geass might manifest itself as something completely different from Lelouch's. Though, this is still an "if."
Ieyasu
01-01-2007, 09:33 AM
By the way, in case you didn't already know, Code Geass will return on the fourth of January.
Shadowmage
01-08-2007, 08:23 AM
Episode 12
Holy crap! Things are getting very interesting. Hopefully the show doesn't go down the path of melodrama, but I love the setup the series has made. Encore!
Yea, I like the way things have been going for CG. Things are always moving at the right pace, and the story has been good, even though a lot still have to be revealed yet.
I am wondering
Who CC was talking to when Shirley gave Lulu the ticket, and what exactly happened between Lulu and the head of the Kyoto back when Lulu was young.
Shadowmage
01-08-2007, 08:33 AM
Who CC was talking to when Shirley gave Lulu the ticket, and what exactly happened between Lulu and the head of the Kyoto back when Lulu was young.
I'm sure CC was talking to herself probably out of jealousy. (Harem anyone?)
The head of Kyoto was probably a friend of Suzaku's father as well as a politician; thus, he knew of Lelouch's circumstances. It's amazing how rumors spread within the political arena.
EDIT
This explains a lot...
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y257/Shadowmage_Shin/vlcsnap-82340.png
KiraraKim
01-08-2007, 01:17 PM
'm sure CC was talking to herself probably out of jealousy. (Harem anyone?)
I was thinking that too. It seems Shirley, CC and Karen have feelings for Lelouch. Though I don't think he has feelings for any of them that way.
Early on people compared Lelouch to Light and I understand the comparison. But the main difference is Lelouch does have people he cares about, his sister, his friends, Suzaku. He probably doesn't want any of these people to get hurt in the process of his war but it seems after this episode it is inevitable. How far is Lelouch willing to go to meet his goals. From the preview I think the next episode might touch this a little.
Also right now Lelouch doesn't know who Lancelot is and Suzaku doesn't know who Zero is. I think it is inevitable that they will discover this and when they do will they choose friendship or the side they are on?
On a side note does anyone know how many episodes this series is scheduled to be?
Ieyasu
01-08-2007, 02:15 PM
I was thinking that too. It seems Shirley, CC and Karen have feelings for Lelouch. Though I don't think he has feelings for any of them that way.
Early on people compared Lelouch to Light and I understand the comparison. But the main difference is Lelouch does have people he cares about, his sister, his friends, Suzaku. He probably doesn't want any of these people to get hurt in the process of his war but it seems after this episode it is inevitable. How far is Lelouch willing to go to meet his goals. From the preview I think the next episode might touch this a little.
Also right now Lelouch doesn't know who Lancelot is and Suzaku doesn't know who Zero is. I think it is inevitable that they will discover this and when they do will they choose friendship or the side they are on?
On a side note does anyone know how many episodes this series is scheduled to be?
I think it's twenty four, along with the possibility of a second series.
Shadowmage
01-08-2007, 02:46 PM
Early on people compared Lelouch to Light and I understand the comparison. But the main difference is Lelouch does have people he cares about, his sister, his friends, Suzaku. He probably doesn't want any of these people to get hurt in the process of his war but it seems after this episode it is inevitable. How far is Lelouch willing to go to meet his goals. From the preview I think the next episode might touch this a little.
Actually, what I got from the episode 12 preview is that Lelouch is thinking about stopping his reign as Zero. This is why flirts with the idea of eliminating the head of Kyoto, so he can return to normal life. I'm sure that the next episode will have Lelouch pondering his actions as Zero, and right as he is about to quit, something happens that compels him to don the mask again.
KiraraKim
01-08-2007, 03:36 PM
I think it's twenty four, along with the possibility of a second series.
Thanks, I guess the second series will depend on ratings. But is this first series going to end this story or will it continue within the second series.
Actually, what I got from the episode 12 preview is that Lelouch is thinking about stopping his reign as Zero. This is why flirts with the idea of eliminating the head of Kyoto, so he can return to normal life. I'm sure that the next episode will have Lelouch pondering his actions as Zero, and right as he is about to quit, something happens that compels him to don the mask again.
Well that is what I meant. Although I don't think he has romantic feelings for Shirley I do think he cares for her as friend and if he thinks his actions as Zero hurt a friend he will question what he is doing. It seems that Lelouch might have to hurt people he cares about if he really wants to destroy Britannia. Is he willing to do that?
Although I wonder if Zero actually was responsible for Shirley's father's death. That is what she was told but I am not sure if we can be certain of this.
Although I wonder if Zero actually was responsible for Shirley's father's death. That is what she was told but I am not sure if we can be certain of this.
Well, her father's body was dug up from the warsite, so naturally his death would have something to do with Lulu since he caused the incident.
Linuts
01-08-2007, 09:06 PM
I'm sure CC was talking to herself probably out of jealousy. (Harem anyone?)
While I do think she showed some signs of jealousy, I don't think this is the first time she had talked to herself. She may actually be talking to something that we can't see yet o_O.
This show has been a blast so far... But one scene in this episode confused me a bit. The whole scene with the girl with glasses... It took me a while, and a bit of browsing through forums to find out what she was doing in that dark room...
Definitly puts the "Table" in the "T" in "WTF"
-_-
Sorrow-kun
01-08-2007, 10:29 PM
Someone's table needed a polish?
Ieyasu
01-09-2007, 08:29 AM
Wow. I thought the last episode was good, but this one goes and tops it. I honestly didn't think Code Geass was capable of doing drama. I would never have expected an episode like this. Really caught me unawares.
I especially liked Zero screwing Kyoto over. Oh, and Zero daydreaming so he thinks Ougi is handing him a love letter. Also, Tamaki spending all of the Black Knight's money on taking the newcomers somewhere he wishes Kallen didn't know about...
Yeah, and Lloyd cutting Suzaku off before he could lapse into a stereotypical moment of mecha pilot idealism.
---
So, Shirley is jealous of Kallen because she is always suspiciously absent on the same days as Lelouch, Kallen is jealous of C.C. because she knows Zero's identity and is acknowledged as an important comrade, and C.C. is jealous of Shirley because she invited Lelouch to go to that concert. Not to mention Shirley has no idea that Lelouch is Zero (who killed her father), Kallen has no idea that Zero is Lelouch (whom she despises ever since the incident with the hotdog seller), and C.C. doesn't even know she likes Lelouch/Zero yet.
Add that to the fact that Jeremiah is presumed dead by the millitary and most likely now involved with those scientists conducting mysterious research near Narita, Villeta has seen a photograph of Lelouch (most likely jogging her memory of the student who stole her Knightmare in Shinjuku), Lloyd and Cecil seem to be connected somehow with the head scientist "Rakshata" at Kyoto (who designed the Guren Mk.II's radiation wave), Lelouch's activities as Zero seem to be distancing him from his sister and this episode ended on Shirley kissing the same man who killed her father, and this show is turning out to be a lot more complex than I originally suspected.
Apolyion
01-09-2007, 02:42 PM
That's not the first time CC has had a conversation with herself as though she were talking to someone we couldn't see, but that she could. I am not 100% convinced it's herself, unless she sees as well as hears the voices in her head. Which is possible.
I do think this episode is a good development for the show, and Shirley and Nunnally giving Lelouch strong reasons to question his path will make him a deeper and more compelling character. I hope Lloyd's pragmatic cynicism will have a similar effect on Suzaku over time - give him cause to question and reason to think, and become deeper and less adolescent because of it.
Ieyasu
01-09-2007, 02:48 PM
Am I the only one who saw who C.C. was talking to then?
Mysterious silver haired man standing on rooftop? Anyone?
Apolyion
01-09-2007, 04:06 PM
Am I the only one who saw who C.C. was talking to then?
Mysterious silver haired man standing on rooftop? Anyone?
I didn't think she was talking to him, I thought he was spying on the campus as part of the Britannian investigation into Zero's identity.
Linuts
01-09-2007, 08:19 PM
Someone's table needed a polish?
Well that table better be clean enough for me to lick it!
...
I mean...
That table better play some important part in the story, cause that scene felt out of place for a while there.
I didn't think she was talking to him, I thought he was spying on the campus as part of the Britannian investigation into Zero's identity.
The one thing I'm starting to worry about is the number of characters being introduced recently. We have the guy you just mentioned, that other knightmare designer, and some more Japanese leaders here and there. The scale of the series maybe a bit too big for the number of episodes its supposed to have.
Shadowmage
01-09-2007, 08:23 PM
That table better play some important part in the story, cause that scene felt out of place for a while there.
And here I thought lesbians were supposed to be good things.
The one thing I'm starting to worry about is the number of characters being introduced recently. We have the guy you just mentioned, that other knightmare designer, and some more Japanese leaders here and there. The scale of the series maybe a bit too big for the number of episodes its supposed to have.
They could just blow them all up in the spirits of Gundam.
Ieyasu
01-10-2007, 02:59 AM
To be honest, all they've done for the first half of the series is set things up. Unless they plan to go all out for the next twelve episodes with plot twist after plot twist, I don't see how they can resolve anything before the show is over.
Hence, the probability of a second series.
I didn't think she was talking to him, I thought he was spying on the campus as part of the Britannian investigation into Zero's identity.
Unlikely. Villeta and Jeremiah are the only ones who suspect someone at that school.
Plus he had heaphones on, and was smiling. Possibly because he had just been teasing C.C. about Lelouch. Plus, his attire doesn't look very Britannian to me.
As for all the new characters, I don't think it'll be a problem. They'll just phase some of the other characters out. Rivalz style. Besides, it's not like they've introduced many important characters. For example, I'm prepared to bet that episode 12 was the first and last we'll see of Kirihara Taizou.
PsychoSaiya-jin
01-10-2007, 06:54 AM
If what I took in from this week's preview, I'm thinking that the twist at the end of 12 is going to lead to Lelouch doing something very drastic and possibly even stupid... which would shake things up considerably.
Major Tom
01-10-2007, 03:36 PM
I watched episodes 1 & 2. Hot damn, what have I been missing out on?
I initially started drawing comparisons between Eureka 7 (and the fact the OP sounds like it's the same guy who did Eureka 7's first OP), but those were very quickly blown away.
Acquiring what's out, catching up soon.....and did the woman who did the Rozen Maiden OP and ED do the Code Geass ED as well?
Shadowmage
01-10-2007, 03:42 PM
Acquiring what's out, catching up soon.....and did the woman who did the Rozen Maiden OP and ED do the Code Geass ED as well?
Yup, 'twas Ali Project.
PsychoSaiya-jin
01-11-2007, 04:45 AM
Yup, 'twas Ali Project.
Yep, Yuuka, who is also the lady from Fiction Junction and See Saw. She famously did the music for shows like .Hack and Noir and some Gundam SEED tracks.
The opening is by the band called Flow. They also happened to have done the Naruto opening GO! but you wouldn't guess by the way it sounds.
Ieyasu
01-11-2007, 08:10 AM
Just so you know, it wasn't your imagination. Flow also did the first OP for Eureka 7
Major Tom
01-11-2007, 04:31 PM
Yep, Yuuka, who is also the lady from Fiction Junction and See Saw. She famously did the music for shows like .Hack and Noir and some Gundam SEED tracks.
The opening is by the band called Flow. They also happened to have done the Naruto opening GO! but you wouldn't guess by the way it sounds.
Hah! I knew I recognised the OP & ED artists. However, Only Kajiura was involved in Noir, See Saw and Yuuka didn't have a say in those ones. I don't think Yuuka is involved in See Saw, just in FictionJunction.
(gotta love Wikipedia).
Shadowmage
01-11-2007, 06:19 PM
Code Geass Second Openning (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSeJ2ppPoV4)
My god, as if ruining Blood+ wasn't enough. I actually looked forward to watching the intro every episode, but now, I'll make a point to avoid it.
Code Geass 2nd Ending (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9coe4cOu-Ho)
Generic, but the vocals were nice.
Typically, when the music goes downhill, an anime begins to suck (ie Eureka 7, Blood+). Let's hope that Code Geass breaks the cycle.
P.S. Note the hommage to Gundam SEED... I'm not liking this.
KiraraKim
01-11-2007, 06:29 PM
I know nothing about Gundam Seed but I agree the new opening is awful. They barely changed any of the images so I don't understand why there was a need to change the song.
The new ending isn't bad but I still think I prefer the original.
Apolyion
01-11-2007, 07:03 PM
The first OP song was a lot better, IMO. The second ED isn't really bad, but it's certainly not an improvement over the first by Ali Project.
soundchazer
01-11-2007, 08:48 PM
Typically, when the music goes downhill, an anime begins to suck (ie Eureka 7, Blood+). Let's hope that Code Geass breaks the cycle.
Actually, some of the later opening sequences in Blood+ are better than the original, both in music and art... it was only the second one that didn't click as much. At the same time, Naruto has had better opening and ending sequences than the original one, and that hasn't made it a better series, so there goes your theory.
Shadowmage
01-11-2007, 09:03 PM
Actually, some of the later opening sequences in Blood+ are better than the original, both in music and art... it was only the second one that didn't click as much. At the same time, Naruto has had better opening and ending sequences than the original one, and that hasn't made it a better series, so there goes your theory.
I never said the converse was true, but then again, the Ray and Charles arc was great regardless of the earbleeding intro. As for Blood+, I could not stop disliking the fourth intro song. (This is also probably why I don't like Code Geass's second intro.)
As for the future of the series, I'm still holding out high hopes. The new intro music has just reminded me that I better not set them too high.
EDIT- Out of curiosity Soundchazer, have you seen the new intro?
Nevermind, I'll spare you pain of listening to it.
Ieyasu
01-12-2007, 08:12 AM
Ho'shit, Lancelot can fly
While the vocals did make my ears explode, the tune wasn't as bad as you'd led me to believe. The singer is just talentless...
Shadowmage
01-12-2007, 02:10 PM
Ho'shit, Lancelot can fly
While the vocals did make my ears explode, the tune wasn't as bad as you'd led me to believe. The singer is just talentless...
I admit, the instrumental part is not bad. However, even one mediocre element can ruin an entire band. I can't believe Jin has gotten this far with such a vocalist.
soundchazer
01-12-2007, 02:29 PM
EDIT- Out of curiosity Soundchazer, have you seen the new intro?
Nevermind, I'll spare you pain of listening to it.
Meh... I heard it... visually it is almost impossible to see diferences with the first intro... and quite frankly, while not being a wonderful voice, it is not nearly as horrible as advertised... the problem is it doesn't match well with the type of show... I would use that song with Naruto or something like that.
Shadowmage
01-13-2007, 10:56 AM
Episode 13 (RAW)
OMG! That was fast. Episode 12 was the very first time I considered this series to be in the 80%+ range, but if Code Geass continues to push the envelope like this it might just steamroll into the 90%+ range. I'll comment more when I get the subbed version.
soundchazer
01-13-2007, 12:47 PM
Agreed... it is also borderlining 90s for me too. But as I always say, anime has a bad tendency to give horrible endings so I try not to get too excited.
Shadowmage
01-14-2007, 08:39 AM
Episode 13
How ruthless. Lelouch is as coldheartedly pragmatic as ever, but what really takes the cake is the conflict outside just Lelouch's revenge. The end of episode 12 set up the beginning of what could be an amazing drama. Episode 13 has set the spark. Let's see how the fireworks will fly.
PS Looking at the episode preview, it seems that the "Geass vs. Geass" title implies an internal struggle rather than a physical one.
soundchazer
01-14-2007, 08:54 AM
Actually, Lelouch is no different than any other type of military leader. Every army accepts collateral damage as part of the rules of engagement as long as victory can be achieved.
The only differece being just how much damage you are willing to inflict on civilians.
It is amazing to see a show that is supposed to be about the mecha, but in reality is turning out to be a study in human emotions during war-like conditions.
Ieyasu
01-14-2007, 10:36 AM
Definitely pushing 90%
Haven't enjoyed a story this much for a long time now. Actually, that's what I like the most about Code Geass. It's a superb story with superb characters.
(Kallen is so smitten)
Wow, what an episode 13 was. So many things have been happening, and so much happened in this episode.
I don't think Lulu will kill Shirley, maybe Geasses her so she forgets, but he won't kill her, he is not that coldblooded. If he was, then he would have shot Cornelia when he had the chance.
Looks to me like Zero and his army is in deep crap now. I am kind of excited because of this, since it's only half way through and we already see Zero failing, then that would mean in the remaining eps, we will get to see how he will try and bounce back. Normally in these types of anime, the villain fails in the end, but having the villain fail in the middle of the series is a welcoming change. Let's hope the directors can keep up the drama and character development. :)
Shadowmage
01-14-2007, 01:35 PM
Wow, what an episode 13 was. So many things have been happening, and so much happened in this episode.
I don't think Lulu will kill Shirley, maybe Geasses her so she forgets, but he won't kill her, he is not that coldblooded. If he was, then he would have shot Cornelia when he had the chance.
Looks to me like Zero and his army is in deep crap now. I am kind of excited because of this, since it's only half way through and we already see Zero failing, then that would mean in the remaining eps, we will get to see how he will try and bounce back. Normally in these types of anime, the villain fails in the end, but having the villain fail in the middle of the series is a welcoming change. Let's hope the directors can keep up the drama and character development. :)
Lelouch would never intentionally hurt his friends in any way. Yes, he may be at times cold blooded, but like any other soldier, he does have people he cares for, people he wants to protect.
I find the word "villain" you use quite interesting. If you look at the series, there may be protagonists and antagonists, but there are no heroes or villains. Zero largely speaks of "justice" and "protecting the weak" in order to garner a larger support base. I highly doubt Lelouch sincerely believes he can uphold his own ideals. He is merely working for his selfish desire to make a better world for his sister and to take vengeance for his mother. While his motives might seem selfless, the means he uses prove that Lelouch is only fighting for his own ego. He thinks that "it's too late to turn back now, so let's just forge ahead and hope for the best."
Ironically enough, Suzaku understands Zero's mindset the best despite being the polar opposite of him. Suzaku believes that it's better to bury the past than to make more sacrifices, so he fights for Britannia. Like Lelouch, he has plenty of pent up hatred, but unlike Lelouch, he lives for the present, while Lelouch is stuck in the past. Britannia's methods may seem brutal, but maintaining the current occupied government will cost less lives than a full scale rebellion.
soundchazer
01-14-2007, 01:42 PM
Actually, I think Lelouch will be more of villian because
I think he will use the Geass against Shirley, but not only to make her forget... but rather to change her way of thinking on him or the Black Knights movement, making him a more unlikeable character in the process.
I think I used the term "villain" too loosely here. I just labeled him as such simply because he doesn't mind sacrificing masses to achieve his goals.
But despite that, he is a likeable character. A very likeable one. Unlike many characters, he is very real. He has his own ambitions, but at the same time he value his friends, like almost everyone do. He values his family as well. This is what gives him the multi-dimension personality and struggle that I personally have been looking for in action or mecha series.
Ieyasu
01-14-2007, 02:36 PM
He thinks that "it's too late to turn back now, so let's just forge ahead and hope for the best."
Not so. His exact words are:
"We can change it. No, we must change it. Will sacrifices be made? People will get dragged in and die, even if they aren't soldiers. However, that's why we must do something. No matter what methods we use, even if we know they're despicable, we must win. To do that, we have to embrace carnage. So as to not waste the blood that has already been shed, we have no choice but to shed even more blood"
His sentiments are closer to:
"We have no choice but to change the world. This is the sort of world where anyone can be killed, even if they aren't soldiers. That's why we have to create a better world. To that end, we must make sacrifices. To that end, we must kill. We must do everything we can, even if what we do is detestable. To change this world, we must "embrace carnage". So that those who ave died for this ideal have not died in vain, we must win"
Despite appearances, Lelouch does have an ideal, and he does act in a way he believes is righteous. If we think back to earlier in the series, he states that he believes the chain of violence can be broken if one side wins. Although he does wish to avenge his mother, this is secondary to his goal of changing the world. While his main motivation for doing this is to create a better world for his sister, I highly doubt that's his only reason. He most likely believes it the right thing to do as well.
Lelouch is a lot of things, but he isn't selfish.
Zero largely speaks of "justice" and "protecting the weak" in order to garner a larger support base
True. But this doesn't make him immoral. Although he doesn't believe in the classic, cliched concept of justice, he still believes in right and wrong. Otherwise, why would he bother to destroy Britannia? He would simply kill those responsible for his mother's death and then bow out. But he isn't going to do that. He won't stop until his father, his empire and his philosophy are all dead and buried. He'll do this because he believes it the right thing to do.
Ironically enough, Suzaku understands Zero's mindset the best despite being the polar opposite of him. Suzaku believes that it's better to bury the past than to make more sacrifices, so he fights for Britannia. Like Lelouch, he has plenty of pent up hatred, but unlike Lelouch, he lives for the present, while Lelouch is stuck in the past. Britannia's methods may seem brutal, but maintaining the current occupied government will cost less lives than a full scale rebellion.
Suzaku is somewhat of a hypocrite. He decries Zero as a murderer, when he is no better. It's not like his hands are exactly clean, is it?
Suzaku's stated goal is to change Britannia from within. He chose the method that costs the least in blood, even if it's against his morals.
Lelouch's stated goal is to destroy Britannia. He chose the method that his morals dictate, no matter how much it costs in blood.
As far as I can see, Lelouch is not stuck in the past at all. Rather, he's just not content with sitting back and letting things happen, unlike Suzaku.
Maverick
01-14-2007, 03:05 PM
It is interesting, this clash of moral codes that are at once both conflicting and coincident. Suzaku wishes to avoid violent change in favor of gradual reform (though he has no real power with which to institute that reform), whereas Lelouch believes that "If it were done, when 'tis done, then 'twer well, It were done quickly."
Yes, Zero's plan may result in more bloodshed over the short term, but over the long term, who is to say that it may not save lives?
There is also the fact that Lelouch actually has a plan (albeit one that looks as though it is close to failure - I wonder if Mr. TV Producer will somehow save the day?), Suzaku seems to hope to change the world by...following orders, but feeling sad about it when he has to kill somebody. Nice plan, genius.
I predict that Suzaku will grow more and more angry about what Zero is doing, but that at heart he will truly be angry at what he himself is being forced to do. Whether that will cause him to switch sides or not, I don't know, but he is clearly heading for a personal crisis (perhaps catalyzed by the revelation of Zero's true identity?)
Don't like the new OP and EDs as much as the old ones. Maybe they'll grow on me.
Shadowmage
01-14-2007, 03:40 PM
His sentiments are closer to:
"We have no choice but to change the world. This is the sort of world where anyone can be killed, even if they aren't soldiers. That's why we have to create a better world. To that end, we must make sacrifices. To that end, we must kill. We must do everything we can, even if what we do is detestable. To change this world, we must "embrace carnage". So that those who ave died for this ideal have not died in vain, we must win"
Isn’t this what I said except with more pomp and a lead-in?
Me: “It’s too late to turn back now, so let’s just forge ahead and hope for the best”
Lelouch: “So as to not waste the blood that has already been shed, we have no choice but to shed even more blood.”
Despite appearances, Lelouch does have an ideal, and he does act in a way he believes is righteous. If we think back to earlier in the series, he states that he believes the chain of violence can be broken if one side wins. Although he does wish to avenge his mother, this is secondary to his goal of changing the world. While his main motivation for doing this is to create a better world for his sister, I highly doubt that's his only reason. He most likely believes it the right thing to do as well.
Then my question to you is what form of government does Lelouch advocate to replace the old order? Don't forget, the show openly states that Japan is more economically stable as "Area 11" than it ever was as just "Japan." Besides, with all that has happened, it is impossible to return to the pre-invasion government, so what's next? What is this “better world” Lelouch wants to show his sister.
Don’t forget that CC asked Lelouch whether vengeance is more important than the destruction of Britannia. To Lelouch, it’s probably one and the same. He wants to kill the institution which murdered his mother and disabled Nunally. His concept of right and wrong has been skewed to a point where they are becoming meaningless. All he has left is this abstract concept “victory” without a vision of what will happen afterwards. But then again, Lelouch simply might be lying to his subordinates (as well as to himself). Deep down, he might just want revenge regardless of the cost.
By the way, the only foolproof method to break the chain of violence is to kill everyone from the opposing party.
Lelouch is a lot of things, but he isn't selfish.
By fighting, not only is Lelouch murdering people wholesale, but he is also risking his sister’s life. He knows if he is killed or caught, Nunally will probably die or become a puppet. Risking one’s own sister for vengeance (or an ideal) can only be considered selfish.
True. But this doesn't make him immoral. Although he doesn't believe in the classic, cliched concept of justice, he still believes in right and wrong. Otherwise, why would he bother to destroy Britannia? He would simply kill those responsible for his mother's death and then bow out. But he isn't going to do that. He won't stop until his father, his empire and his philosophy are all dead and buried. He'll do this because he believes it the right thing to do.
Personally, I think vengeance is Zero’s number one motive, but that does not mean he is blind to repercussions to his actions. Lelouch is not such an idealist that he is willing to risk his own life to preach on a soap box. He simply wants his mother’s murderers dead.
The fact that Lelouch hasn’t done anything before he got the Geass tells me a lot about his nature. In truth, Lelouch is a coward. Being a realist, he knows his limitations and does not think of surpassing them with his own powers. He sits backs and watches with an apathetic glare and lets the days flow by. If the Geass had not existed, he probably would have married Shirley and lived a comfortable life as a low class noble while constantly attending to Nunally’s needs.
Suzaku is somewhat of a hypocrite. He decries Zero as a murderer, when he is no better. It's not like his hands are exactly clean, is it?
Suzaku's stated goal is to change Britannia from within. He chose the method that costs the least in blood, even if it's against his morals.
Lelouch's stated goal is to destroy Britannia. He chose the method that his morals dictate, no matter how much it costs in blood.
As far as I can see, Lelouch is not stuck in the past at all. Rather, he's just not content with sitting back and letting things happen, unlike Suzaku.
Everyone is a hypocrite in Code Geass. It’s just human nature.
Anyways, I hold Suzaku in higher moral regard than Lelouch. Sure, he is a less interesting character than his friend, but he has the guts to fight with his own strength. He does not wait like Lelouch for a change (like the Geass), he goes out and tries to make it. (Okay, the Lancelot is pretty much invulnerable, but Suzaku would have fought even if it was with a regular Knightmare.)
In the end, I believe Suzaku’s methods will save more lives. Lelouch is exacerbating a full scale war among the Britannians and Elevens, while Suzaku is trying to diffuse it.
Apolyion
01-14-2007, 05:39 PM
Everyone is a hypocrite in Code Geass. It’s just human nature.
Part of why I like the show so much... every character is very realistically ugly in a lot of ways. It being entertainment, things that make a character disagreeable or detestable often make them better characters than their positive qualities, even though (obviously) it means they aren't necessarily very good people.
I really like the trend in some of the better recent anime towards using this sort of moral ambiguity to good effect, but Code Geass is doing it several notches better than most even in this regard.
Anyways, I hold Suzaku in higher moral regard than Lelouch. Sure, he is a less interesting character than his friend, but he has the guts to fight with his own strength. He does not wait like Lelouch for a change (like the Geass), he goes out and tries to make it. (Okay, the Lancelot is pretty much invulnerable, but Suzaku would have fought even if it was with a regular Knightmare.)
I don't really think the Lancelot is Suzaku's "own power" - in the end Suzaku is a tool in the hands of others, and others use him as such, and he has no choice in the matter unless he wants to give up his power (the Lancelot). Lloyd even refers to him openly as a "part" to the Lancelot out of Suzaku's hearing.
I'm not really sure how much of a choice he had about joining the military, for that matter... the circumstances behind that (and why the son of a former Japanese leader who resisted the invasion was accepted into the army) weren't explained. I would expect they are interesting.
As for Lelouch, he says Geass "pushed up his timetable" by giving him the chance to strike now, instead of waiting until he could acquire other resources. He's very pragmatic about it - he does know his limits, and he is intimately familiar with his enemy too. Suzaku is pretty naive to think he change Britannia from the inside IMO - Lelouch on the other hand, knows very well how cruel, deceiving, underhanded, violent, and all-around nasty the Britannian royal family is.
Lelouch isn't really better than them, and he probably knows it, but that's kind of the point - in order to beat them, he is willing to become them, probably in the hope that after him there won't have to be any more people like that. I think he always viewed himself as one of the damned, and if he had any doubts about that, they're gone now. But he wants to be the last of it, the end of the lineage of plotters and killers produced by the Empire.
I want to pose a question: Do you think Suzaku will rebel against Britannia as he gains power?
So far, he seems like a very loyal soldier to Britannia, for whatever reason I don't know, since he is the son of the Prime Minister of Japan.
I personally DON'T think he is going to rebel against Britannia as that's something that goes against his character. But if he doesn't rebel, what can he do? From what I have seen, Britannia runs a royal system where the throne is inherited, not through accomplishments. If he doesn't rebel, he still won't have any say in how the country should be run, no matter how long he works for them.
Maybe he has some other plans, like having a close relationship with one of the royals and then manipulate him/her or try to persuade him/her into not going into wars all the time, but either way, he is very naive.
IMO, he is at the wrong place if he thinks he can change the world without making sacrifices, especially in a system where you can't gain control of the country through working hard and fighting for the country. He will always be the royal's soldier, or officier, as far as I can tell. He should get out of this whole war business if he doesn't want to kill anyone. He should be EXPECTED to kill innocent people when asked, since he is in the freaking army, just like how Lulu should have EXPECTED to hurt the love ones of those who die in wars.
Now, I am not a rebel, I am not saying people should do whatever they want to achieve their goals and disregard the consequences. My problem with Suzaku is that, if I was him, I SHOULD have realized that when I serve in the army, I will be killing people, and so to consider himself as the heroic one and Zero is the evil one seems pretty ironic to me, considering that it is Britannia who constantly reaches out and go for war. I should be just a normal student, should I not?
KiraraKim
01-14-2007, 09:56 PM
IMO, he is at the wrong place if he thinks he can change the world without making sacrifices, especially in a system where you can't gain control of the country through working hard and fighting for the country. He will always be the royal's soldier, or officier, as far as I can tell. He should get out of this whole war business if he doesn't want to kill anyone. He should be EXPECTED to kill innocent people when asked, since he is in the freaking army, just like how Lulu should have EXPECTED to hurt the love ones of those who die in wars.
Exactly, Suzaku has no right to judge Zero.
Suzaku sees Zero as someone who started this violence unnecessarily while Suzuku fights in the Empire's army to protect innocent people. But isn't Suzaku still the Empire's pawn? Suzaku is not protecting innocent people he is protecting the Empire's goals.
Anyways I am convinced Suzaku will break soon. In episode 11 we saw Suzaku's reaction to the memory of his father it seems Suzaku has a lot bottled up inside and that is never a good thing.
Ieyasu
01-15-2007, 06:45 AM
Isn’t this what I said except with more pomp and a lead-in?
Me: “It’s too late to turn back now, so let’s just forge ahead and hope for the best”
Lelouch: “So as to not waste the blood that has already been shed, we have no choice but to shed even more blood.”
Not at all.
Your way implies that he's doing it because he has no choice. But on the contrary, he chooses to do it. As he says, he is resolute and completely commited to his goal. If he couldn't go back, he wouldn't tell Kallen it wasn't too late to stop.
As for hoping for the best, his ultimate goal is a looooooooong way off yet, it's still a little early for him to be thinking about what will happen afterwards.
Then my question to you is what form of government does Lelouch advocate to replace the old order? Don't forget, the show openly states that Japan is more economically stable as "Area 11" than it ever was as just "Japan." Besides, with all that has happened, it is impossible to return to the pre-invasion government, so what's next? What is this “better world” Lelouch wants to show his sister.
One that isn't ruled by the concept of survival of the fittest. Don't forget, the Japanese people are still forced into ghettos and treated like second class citizens. Hardly an ideal system. Whatever replaces it, I'd say it's better than one that's inherently racist.
Don’t forget that CC asked Lelouch whether vengeance is more important than the destruction of Britannia. To Lelouch, it’s probably one and the same. He wants to kill the institution which murdered his mother and disabled Nunally. His concept of right and wrong has been skewed to a point where they are becoming meaningless. All he has left is this abstract concept “victory” without a vision of what will happen afterwards. But then again, Lelouch simply might be lying to his subordinates (as well as to himself). Deep down, he might just want revenge regardless of the cost.
Impossible to say. We can but speculate.
By fighting, not only is Lelouch murdering people wholesale, but he is also risking his sister’s life. He knows if he is killed or caught, Nunally will probably die or become a puppet. Risking one’s own sister for vengeance (or an ideal) can only be considered selfish.
He doesn't factor defeat into his plans...
He may be murderering people, but he's not doing it for no reason. Like I said, he believes it's for a greater good.
As for his sister being put at risk, I find that questionable. A disabled blind girl is hardly useful or a threat, so what would be the point in killing her or using her? Not to mention she's under the protection of the Ashford family. They'd most likely take care of her if Lelouch was killed.
Personally, I think vengeance is Zero’s number one motive, but that does not mean he is blind to repercussions to his actions. Lelouch is not such an idealist that he is willing to risk his own life to preach on a soap box. He simply wants his mother’s murderers dead.
Again, we can only speculate until he proves this one way or the other.
The fact that Lelouch hasn’t done anything before he got the Geass tells me a lot about his nature. In truth, Lelouch is a coward. Being a realist, he knows his limitations and does not think of surpassing them with his own powers. He sits backs and watches with an apathetic glare and lets the days flow by. If the Geass had not existed, he probably would have married Shirley and lived a comfortable life as a low class noble while constantly attending to Nunally’s needs.
There's a difference between being a coward and being a realist. It's like me saying to you:
Me: "Go out and take down America"
You: "What?"
Me: "You heard"
Just because you don't try to take on the most powerful millitary in the world without any weapons or allies, and therefore no chance of success doesn't make you a coward. It makes you, what's the word? Ah yes. Sane
Everyone is a hypocrite in Code Geass. It’s just human nature.
Truth
Shadowmage
01-15-2007, 07:35 AM
Not at all.
Your way implies that he's doing it because he has no choice. But on the contrary, he chooses to do it. As he says, he is resolute and completely commited to his goal. If he couldn't go back, he wouldn't tell Kallen it wasn't too late to stop.
This is one fringe benefit of being a pawn. Your soul isn't nearly as mired in conflict as the leader's. Kallen can go back, but Lelouch can't; he is too consumed by hate. Whereas Kallen's desire has become to protect Zero, Lelouch has nothing really to protect. His actions have slowly widened the gulf between him and his friends/family. In Lelouch's mind all he has left is victory.
As for hoping for the best, his ultimate goal is a looooooooong way off yet, it's still a little early for him to be thinking about what will happen afterwards.
Simply put, this is unacceptable. Recall a recent war where the President had no clue what he wanted to do after toppling the dictator? (Oh wait, the people were supposed to embrace Democracy... I doubt Lelouch is that shallow, but not having a plan is not much worse.)
One that isn't ruled by the concept of survival of the fittest. Don't forget, the Japanese people are still forced into ghettos and treated like second class citizens. Hardly an ideal system. Whatever replaces it, I'd say it's better than one that's inherently racist.
Recall Lelouch's exchange with Kallen? Anyone can apply to become a citizen of Britannia so long as they are willing to sacrifice their pride. Don't forget, even in the pre-invasion Japan, there were ghettos. the class dynamics between the poor and rich will always exist. The fact that an economy is more stable means that the amount of goods/services that can be distributed is larger.
He doesn't factor defeat into his plans...
He may be murderering people, but he's not doing it for no reason. Like I said, he believes it's for a greater good.
As for his sister being put at risk, I find that questionable. A disabled blind girl is hardly useful or a threat, so what would be the point in killing her or using her? Not to mention she's under the protection of the Ashford family. They'd most likely take care of her if Lelouch was killed.
I'm not saying that Britannia will kill her. She'll probably go die on her own if she learns that Lelouch is dead. Don't forget, she became sick just because Lelouch became distant from her. Imagine what would happen if her brother died.
The fact that she is a daughter of Britannia still holds leverage in the political arena. I believe that her disability makes her an even more attractive target simply because she would be easier to control. Once Zero is tied to the Ashford family, the family name would lose all power, so they would have no means to protect Nunally.
There's a difference between being a coward and being a realist.
Just because you don't try to take on the most powerful millitary in the world without any weapons or allies, and therefore no chance of success doesn't make you a coward. It makes you, what's the word? Ah yes. Sane
I was saying that Lelouch is a coward in comparison to Suzaku. Remember the traffice conflict scene where Shirley first fell for Lelouch? If Suzaku were there, he would brazenly go out and tell off the bully and take a few punches instead of just sitting back and not caring.
Without the Geass, Lelouch probably would have been a normal person, not an idealist he is now.
(Note: I highly doubt Lelouch would have fought without the Geass. Words are cheap. He may have had plans to topple Britannia, but he probably would have reasoned himself out of taking such actions.)
Ieyasu
01-15-2007, 08:13 AM
This is one fringe benefit of being a pawn. Your soul isn't nearly as mired in conflict as the leader's. Kallen can go back, but Lelouch can't; he is too consumed by hate. Whereas Kallen's desire has become to protect Zero, Lelouch has nothing really to protect. His actions have slowly widened the gulf between him and his friends/family. In Lelouch's mind all he has left is victory.
I still think he is acting beyond simply attaining victory. He isn't so egotistical he would kill for something like that.
Simply put, this is unacceptable. Recall a recent war where the President had no clue what he wanted to do after toppling the dictator? (Oh wait, the people were supposed to embrace Democracy... I doubt Lelouch is that shallow, but not having a plan is not much worse.)
It's not really a fair comparison. The Order of the Black Knights is a tiny rebel organisation against a massive empire covering a large chunk of the globe. Victory is hardly imminent.
With the Iraq War, a victory for America was inevitable, therefore there was a need for a proper plan. But victory against Britannia would be years, if not decades off yet. Therefore, no pressing need for a plan.
Recall Lelouch's exchange with Kallen? Anyone can apply to become a citizen of Britannia so long as they are willing to sacrifice their pride. Don't forget, even in the pre-invasion Japan, there were ghettos. the class dynamics between the poor and rich will always exist. The fact that an economy is more stable means that the amount of goods/services that can be distributed is larger.
Debatable I suppose. I'm not exactly a patriot, so I'm inclined to agree with your reasoning.
Although, imagine if tommorow, a world power (say China, for the sake of argument) were to invade your country and impose it's rule. Would you be content to sit back and let that happen? Is it just to allow this to happen when you have the power to do something?
I'm not saying that Britannia will kill her. She'll probably go die on her own if she learns that Lelouch is dead. Don't forget, she became sick just because Lelouch became distant from her. Imagine what would happen if her brother died.
Eh, I doubt she'd die simply from losing him. The sickness thing was more of a dramatic device than an actual condition where she becomes ill if her brother distances himself from her...
The fact that she is a daughter of Britannia still holds leverage in the political arena. I believe that her disability makes her an even more attractive target simply because she would be easier to control. Once Zero is tied to the Ashford family, the family name would lose all power, so they would have no means to protect Nunally.
So much leverage that Britannia invaded the country while she was still there? Britannia doesn't care one tiny bit for Nunnally, therefore, she is useless as leverage.
True about the Ashford family though.
I was saying that Lelouch is a coward in comparison to Suzaku. Remember the traffice conflict scene where Shirley first fell for Lelouch? If Suzaku were there, he would brazenly go out and tell off the bully and take a few punches instead of just sitting back and not caring.
Eh. You could argue that he isn't brave, he's just not as intelligent. Lelouch probably got more of a result from towing the guy's car. Suzaku would probably have just caused more trouble.
But this scene also demonstrates my point about Lelouch still having a sense of justice. If he really didn't care about other people or what's right and wrong at all, he wouldn't have gotten involved. But he did.
Actually, if Lelouch doesn't care about other people, why did he go to help the people in the truck when it crashed in episode one?
Again, Lelouch isn't selfish, just really, really ruthless when doing what he believes to be righteous.
Without the Geass, Lelouch probably would have been a normal person, not an idealist he is now.
(Note: I highly doubt Lelouch would have fought without the Geass. Words are cheap. He may have had plans to topple Britannia, but he probably would have reasoned himself out of taking such actions.)
Not sure about that. Most normal people wouldn't tow someone's car simply to help out someone they never met before. We also saw the "normal" reaction to accidents when the truck crashed. People just stand and watch.
Not Lelouch though.
We don't really know one way or the other. I'm inclined to think (from everything I've seen of him) that he would have made his move once he had a realistic chance of actually making a difference.
Shadowmage
01-15-2007, 08:49 AM
It's not really a fair comparison. The Order of the Black Knights is a tiny rebel organisation against a massive empire covering a large chunk of the globe. Victory is hardly imminent.
With the Iraq War, a victory for America was inevitable, therefore there was a need for a proper plan. But victory against Britannia would be years, if not decades off yet. Therefore, no pressing need for a plan.
Despite this, Zero never factors in the probability of losing. Therefore, he is forced to think about what he should do afterwards. Then again, he might have a plan that just hasn’t been shown yet.
Although, imagine if tommorow, a world power (say China, for the sake of argument) were to invade your country and impose it's rule. Would you be content to sit back and let that happen? Is it just to allow this to happen when you have the power to do something?
Don’t forget, Lelouch is Britannian. He really doesn’t care about the Japanese’s cause too much. He may empathize with their loss and hatred, but he sees them as a tool more than anything else. The fact that he still calls them “Elevens” proves that nationalism has nothing to do with Lelouch’s rebellion.
Eh, I doubt she'd die simply from losing him. The sickness thing was more of a dramatic device than an actual condition where she becomes ill if her brother distances himself from her...
True, I was speaking more from an artistic sense. In real life, people are not so frail. But then again, the one thing that bothers me is the fact that Nunally is blind and crippled. In other words, her life is purely encompassed by those around her. She physically cannot reach out of her niche even if she wanted to. If something as important as Lelouch ceases to exist, it would be catastrophic for Nunally. I mean what more does she have to live for? Lelouch is what helps her through the toils of everyday.
So much leverage that Britannia invaded the country while she was still there? Britannia doesn't care one tiny bit for Nunnally, therefore, she is useless as leverage.
The royal family as well as high level politicians would probably not care; however, those at the bottom of the pyramid squandering their way to the top will use any leverage they possibly can. I’m sure the name “Nunally” doesn’t mean much with those with extraordinary power, but those trying to get that power will use any means necessary including manipulating a crippled girl.
Eh. You could argue that he isn't brave, he's just not as intelligent. Lelouch probably got more of a result from towing the guy's car. Suzaku would probably have just caused more trouble.
But this scene also demonstrates my point about Lelouch still having a sense of justice. If he really didn't care about other people or what's right and wrong at all, he wouldn't have gotten involved. But he did.
Actually, if Lelouch doesn't care about other people, why did he go to help the people in the truck when it crashed in episode one?
Again, Lelouch isn't selfish, just really, really ruthless when doing what he believes to be righteous.
Not sure about that. Most normal people wouldn't tow someone's car simply to help out someone they never met before. We also saw the "normal" reaction to accidents when the truck crashes. People just stand and watch.
Not Lelouch though.
I admit, Lelouch is one step up from most people, but he is not willing to help people in conflict. He is too calculating, and his own sense of risk management prevents himself with entering a foreign fray. I admit, I relate with him a lot more because his actions are pragmatic, but Suzaku’s headstrong courage is infinitely braver (albeit stupid).
In the end, the façade Lelouch presents to other people is one of a calculating coward who looks at the world with general apathy. I find it ironic that Lelouch is truly himself when he is behind a mask.
We don't really know one way or the other. I'm inclined to think (from everything I've seen of him) that he would have made his move once he had a realistic chance of actually making a difference.
The problem is that realistic chance would have never come if he didn’t actively pursue it. This is why I put Suzaku in higher regards than Lelouch. He goes out and tries to make a difference against seemingly impossible odds. Lelouch’s is too prudent to even try without something like the Geass.
KiraraKim
01-15-2007, 09:24 AM
The problem is that realistic chance would have never come if he didn’t actively pursue it. This is why I put Suzaku in higher regards than Lelouch. He goes out and tries to make a difference against seemingly impossible odds. Lelouch’s is too prudent to even try without something like the Geass.
But how is Suzaku's actions making a difference?
Shadowmage
01-15-2007, 09:29 AM
But how is Suzaku's actions making a difference?
Quite frankly, without the Lancelot, he would not have made a difference. Hence I called his actions foolish.
Ieyasu
01-15-2007, 09:35 AM
I can't even remember when I cared enough about a show to talk about it like this.
Incidentally, is C.C. leaving? She made it sound like she wasn't coming back when she left Lelouch's home.
I can't even remember when I cared enough about a show to talk about it like this.
Incidentally, is C.C. leaving? She made it sound like she wasn't coming back when she left Lelouch's home.
Sounded more like she is going to complete something she hasn't finished, and I would think it would have something to do with Suzaku, since last time she went there to test something out. Or maybe she is just there to save Lulu again.
Shadowmage
01-16-2007, 03:42 PM
If what Wikipedia says is true...
Mao (マオ)
* Age: 17
A young Chinese man who is also given the power of Geass, at the age of 6 by C.C. His Geass power differs from Lelouch's in that he has the ability to read minds and he doesn't need to have direct eye contact with his victim. Mao is mentally unstable and looking for C.C.
Does this sound like anyone we know? I wonder if Lelouch is going to fight over C.C. next episode...
PsychoSaiya-jin
01-17-2007, 04:54 AM
I love how Suzaku is so loud to criticize Zero for the accidental loss of civilian life and conveniently forgets about the Brittanic army's massacre of Shinjiku and other 'ghettos' :)
C.C. seems to be vital to Lelouch's continuing success, fighting over her would be something to behold.
Major Tom
01-17-2007, 02:48 PM
Simply put, this is unacceptable. Recall a recent war where the President had no clue what he wanted to do after toppling the dictator? (Oh wait, the people were supposed to embrace Democracy... I doubt Lelouch is that shallow, but not having a plan is not much worse.)
I'd agree with this sentiment. From what I can tell, Lelouch is so far too pre-occupied with the 'vengence' part of his plan, and doesn't seem to ahve given much thought to what actually happens next. Can't exactly live happily ever after if the world is plunged into greater chaos.
So I've caught up to ep.12. This show is simply amazing. I like the alternate universe setting, and for once the Knightmare frames are an interesting mecha. They have limitations on what they can do.
For the same reason I'm not that impressed with the super frames, they can do spin kicks and super jumps, just like every other damn mecha show. It's good that they are only brought out for special occasions, (to date, anyways).
Another thing that bothered me, but this might be down to poor translation. What the hell was Hezbollah doing in Japan, and since when did Serbia become a desert inhabited by Bedouins?
Overall, the story is hella good, without anybody really being a good guy or a bad guy.
ep.13 looks to be a Lelouch introspection ep, on his goals, motivations and most importanlty, his methods now that he's hurt someone close to him. I'm looking forward to what is decided. I don't think he'll change much....
Edit:
Ok, so I was wrong. Shirely losing her father may have impacted on, but it didn't cause Lelouch to sink into self-introspection.
I am tending to agree with SC one what further actions he will take, whether he will tread down the path of villany or not. I also agree with Kirakim, Suzaku is going to break. Lloyd said it best when Suzaku attempted to explain his beliefs to him.
'That contradiction is going to kill you one day'.
I am eager to see what happens when Suzaku finds out his greatest enemy is his best friend.
KiraraKim
01-24-2007, 11:51 AM
Finally watched episode 14. This is one of the better episodes of the series
It shows once and for all that Lelouch is no Light. Although I am not sure what he did for Shirley was right for him or for her. But distancing himself completely from Shirley and probably from everyone else he cares about is the only way he can truly meet his goal. The only thing I don't understand is Lelouch made Shirley forget him and everything about him completely. But did he also make her forget everything associated with him? For this truly to work Shirley can no longer attend that school. Because everyone knows who she is and who Lelouch is.
Another thing is I am still not entirely sure where Mao came from. Though I expect this is not the last we've seen of him
DarkKanti
01-24-2007, 02:50 PM
I never even stopped to think that Lelouch might've made Shirley forget everything about him. That would explain him saying "I lost a friend." That would be a little weird considering she's in the same class as him. Other than that though, I was a little dissapointed by this episode. I was kind of hoping Lelouch wouldn't have to use his Geass on Shirley, but I guess in the end it was a necessary evil. Mao seems like an interesting characters though, so I hope to see more of him as things go along.
Shadowmage
01-24-2007, 03:03 PM
Episode 14
It seems that Lelouch planning to abandon his home to pursue his dreams as Zero. (Either that or he ordered Shirley to move away from the school.) Regardless, the show has been sprinting for fourteen episodes. Looking back, I'm amazed how much the series has accomplished in such a short time. I applaud whoever wrote the script.
As for Mao, if things move as fast as it has been, he will be killed within a few episodes if not the next episode. This would be a good time to expand on CC's past and shed some light on her personality and idioscicrasies.
Apolyion
01-24-2007, 04:51 PM
Code Geass continues to hold my interest like no other show this season. Lelouch using Geass on Shirley to make her forget him entirely was completely unexpected, but great, absolutely great. Either he's ordered her to move away or stop attending school, or else he doesn't intend to go back there himself. I'd wager on the first, since I don't see him abandoning Nunnally.
Mao seems like he'll mostly be a tool for developing CC and as sort of a "side nuisance" for Zero, but this show is so well-crafted that it could still surprise us.
KiraraKim
01-24-2007, 05:17 PM
The problem is if Shirley goes back to that school. Other people will realize something is wrong with her and question why she can't remember Lelouch (although I suppose it can all be attributed to Trauma).
I think Lelouch would have to get Shirley to stop attending the school even if he himself also plans to stop attending.
Major Tom
01-25-2007, 05:10 AM
The problem is if Shirley goes back to that school. Other people will realize something is wrong with her and question why she can't remember Lelouch (although I suppose it can all be attributed to Trauma).
An idea came to me, though. If she stops going (or transfers to another school), she'll have to collect her stuff. Now unless Lelouch has taken all her memento's of him, I wonder if finding a picture could mess things up. Can the geass be undone? Just a thought.
Anyways, an interesting episode. I got the impression that we are seeing that Lelouch is still a person, not just a vengeful bastard. I don't think that he gave the fact that something needed to be done about Shirely a second thought. But he didn't actually want to hurt her at all, so he chose the path that would give her the least pain, and in a sense he is bearing her sins.
Now, another problem I can foresee is that knight lady. If she decides to pursue Shirely for shooting her, Shirely going to be in some deep shit and she will honestly not know why. Another interesting side effect will be if the knight decides to report Lelouch's identity to Cornelia. She will recognise Lelouch for who he is, and I wonder what course she is going to take. There's using Nunnelly as leverage for example, seeing as she knows something about the assassination that was probably meant to wipe them all out.
As for Mao, if things move as fast as it has been, he will be killed within a few episodes if not the next episode. This would be a good time to expand on CC's past and shed some light on her personality and idioscicrasies.
I'm not so sure about that. I think Mao's got a crush on C.C, otherwise he wouldn't have been so excited to see her. Who he's actually working for might want to recover C.C. and Mao might let his feelings for her get in the way of his job and let her go. But that's just conjecture, he might just be bumped off, I don't know.
Shadowmage
01-25-2007, 07:01 PM
I'm not so sure about that. I think Mao's got a crush on C.C, otherwise he wouldn't have been so excited to see her. Who he's actually working for might want to recover C.C. and Mao might let his feelings for her get in the way of his job and let her go. But that's just conjecture, he might just be bumped off, I don't know.
"Crush?" I think it is a straightout obsession. Mao is the worst kind of stalker as he is willing to kill anyone around CC so he can get to her. The fact that he is wearing headphones which constantly loops CC's voice only supports this theory.
I don't think he is working for any organization except himself. Simply put, he wants to "possess" CC. He is the type of person who fantasizes about a real person and creates basically a sick, contorted image of that person. Basically, he sees CC as a doll (but ironically, he cannot read her mind).
EDIT
Episode 15 (RAW) *No spoilers*
Due to the sheer amount of dialogue, this is one episode you should not see without subs. While most of the episode can be deciphered through previous knowledge and the physical actions, don't watch it if you can help it. (Ironically enough, Code Geass is one of the few shows that makes me want to learn Japanese so I can watch the latest episodes five days before the subs come out. I'll probably kick this habit four episodes before the finale)
The pacing is once again quick. There are so many subplots running in tandem with the current Mao arc that there is not a dull moment. This episode makes it easier to empathize with Mao right before showing his true nature. (Remember Cowboy Bebop? There is nothing scarrier than a child with power.) Anyways, its seems that the only reason Shirley hung out with Lelouch and friends was because of Lelouch. (No love interest means, no interest for those friends.) Overall, good episode. It keeps the ball rolling fast, but don't expect another episode 12.
Major Tom
01-26-2007, 05:03 PM
"Crush?" I think it is a straightout obsession. Mao is the worst kind of stalker as he is willing to kill anyone around CC so he can get to her. The fact that he is wearing headphones which constantly loops CC's voice only supports this theory.
I don't think he is working for any organization except himself. Simply put, he wants to "possess" CC. He is the type of person who fantasizes about a real person and creates basically a sick, contorted image of that person. Basically, he sees CC as a doll (but ironically, he cannot read her mind).
You're right, crush was the wrong word for Mao, he's is rather enamoured with C.C. in an unhealthly looking way. I'm still not so sure that he is out for himself though, seeing as what we know of.....whatever these people are, they seem to be kept under a rather close watch, but I could be wrong about that.
I also noticed that C.C. Seemed to pity Mao, I suppose she's well aware of his obsession with her.
Ieyasu
01-26-2007, 05:05 PM
A good episode. Not quite up to the standard of twelve or thirteen, but pretty damn close.
I like how they've been subtly dropping hints about Suzaku not being as kind hearted as he looks. Lloyd continues to upstage many of the other VAs, and is suprisingly interesting for just a side character.
Seeing Mao ****ing around with Shirley's mind was entertaining and his mind games with Lelouch were good too, but I wonder what his goal was in confronting Lelouch? Is he just jealous because he's C.C.'s new toy? I guess that's probably it. And was it just me, or was C.C. just a lil' scared of Mao?
Anywho, I really wasn't expecting Mao to be an obsessive stalker type. I have to say, I'm a little creeped out by the notion of wearing headphones playing back your beloved's voice 24/7. Definitely makes him more interesting though. His VA also seems pretty talented.
As for the resolution, I'd say I'm satisfied with it. The moment Shirley realised Lelouch was going to erase her memories was a good one, and their conversation afterwards was a nice way to wrap eveything up. The writers for this show really know how to tell a story.
And finally, it's nice to know Lelouch is still human.
(Oh, and yeah, understatement of the year there, Tom >>)
Major Tom
01-26-2007, 05:12 PM
(Oh, and yeah, understatement of the year there, Tom >>)
Do I get a cookie for that?
Ieyasu
01-26-2007, 05:32 PM
You get to listen to the crazy man expound upon how much he loves C.C. so you don't make the same mistake again :bnono:
KiraraKim
02-01-2007, 07:52 AM
Episode 15
I don't think I like that Shirley is still at the school. Lelouch's excuse for why she didn't recognize him was pretty lame. It sort of takes away from the impact of the scene in episode 14.
That being said I enjoyed this episode more then I thought I would. I don't really like Mao at all but despite him I still really enjoyed the suspense and pacing of this episode.
Ieyasu
02-01-2007, 11:21 AM
Ha! Lloyd is an earl.
EDIT: By the way, I've had girls ignore me for upwards of four months. Lelouch's excuse isn't as implausible as it sounds.
KiraraKim
02-01-2007, 11:29 AM
EDIT: By the way, I've had girls ignore me for upwards of four months. Lelouch's excuse isn't as implausible as it sounds.
But she wasn't acting like she was ignoring him she was acting like she really had no idea who he was at all.
Ieyasu
02-01-2007, 11:47 AM
But she wasn't acting like she was ignoring him she was acting like she really had no idea who he was at all.
*Shrug*
I don't find it that unusual. People will just assume she's trying to spite him.
Well, it's a credit to the writer that he can have a character for only two epsiodes, yet still manage to make him interesting and relevent. Although I suppose I may be biased, I have a soft spot for psycho characters.
Mao turned out to be a far more understandable character than I thought he could be. His headphones were given a reasonable explanation, as was his behaviour towards C.C.. They even managed to make me feel sorry for him.
Which seems strange considering he was going to make C.C. "compact"...
Hmm... I had a little bit of mixed feeling for this episode, but overall, the fanboy in me still cried for more.
I thought they could have handled some parts better, like Viletta's and Shirley's condition. I thought it was a bit of a cop out for Viletta to all of a sudden lose all her memories, as for Shirley, well, it was a decent resolution, but I think it could have been better.
Now onto the goodies. The relationship between CC and Lulu continues to intrigue me. It's just such an interesting relationship.
On one hand, they both need each other badly. CC needs lulu to help her achieve her goals, as for Lulu, CC is both a person that he can trust as well as one that could achieve a lot of things through her power. In a sense, Lulu needs CC even more than she needs him cause she is the only one that understands him, she is only one that he can go to when he has problems.
Yet at the same time, it seems that they are both reluctant to get attached to each other, you can argue. It makes sense in the sense that you never know if the other person will betray you, but the story seems to be pushing towards something deeper. I am really hoping that eventually there will be something more between them, but as far as I can tell, that might never happen.
I especially liked the last