Incest...not just for hicks anymore! [Archive]

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Niner

10-03-2006, 03:23 AM

No sir-ee. (http://villagevoice.com/news/0640,cramer,74593,6.html)

So yeah, my latest bout of insomnia had me stumble upon that.

I'm going to go have a very strong, very alcoholic drink right now. :migrane:

ash_chan

10-03-2006, 03:50 AM

That is...disturbing on so many levels.
Just from reading that I fear what is happening to our societies.
If I was old enough, I'd probably have a drink after reading that too.
Sheesh.
I've had a lot of bad stuff happen to me...but that article hits an all time low.

EDIT:
D:
Uhh, eww.
his and Linda's DNA turned up on a vibrator
. . .

"I unpacked the toys and checked them out. The thing excites me just looking at it. I promise you have never seen anything like it. Interestingly 'it' is actually smaller than I am! But what moves! I should have been so lucky. They are now packed into their own bag and I am going to make sure we have enough AA batteries to last for the duration."

Father and Daughter bonding gone horribly horribly wrong.

Two-twenty

10-03-2006, 03:53 AM

In other e-mails, they began to sign off as "H" and "W," references to husband and wife. In one e-mail, dated June 29, 2004, McMahan wrote: "Miss you W. Think nasty things about you all the time." Linda answered a couple of hours later: "Mmm yeah, nasty is so good. You must have read my mind. What else can we say, we're H & W — that's the beauty.
Jesus Richard Christ man, I don't need to read this. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/Twotwenty/gonk.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/Twotwenty/gonk.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/Twotwenty/gonk.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/Twotwenty/gonk.gif

Niner

10-03-2006, 04:04 AM

Then McMahan really started to lay it on thick. Linda testified he told her he believed they'd been married in a previous life. Earlier in the evening, she remembered, he had pointed out that her legs were a "very sexy version" of his own.

http://9.echonetwork.net/Crap/Oh_Internet/emot-psyduck.gif

Emeraldas

10-03-2006, 06:11 AM

Ugh. Uuuuggghh.

Afterward, she flew home to her legal spouse in Mississippi"

Well, we know where she learned it.

Phate

10-03-2006, 09:32 AM

It's what's for dinner... tonight. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/Ph4t3/Emot/emot-cheers.gif

f1rst children

10-03-2006, 09:57 AM

Blue Audio

10-03-2006, 10:43 AM

Hot. But only in West Virginia and in the Deep South.

PsychoSaiya-jin

10-03-2006, 10:50 AM

Meh. As long as it isn't hurting anyone, what two consenting adults do behind closed doors doesn't bother me.

Besides, the aristocratic families of Europe have been inbreeding for centuries. Depending on your religion, you might even believe that we're all the products of incest.
No. There's a marked difference between what aristocrats do and this case. Incest involves either 2 1st-generation blood relatives or an adult and the person they've raised.

In this case, even if there wasn't a blood relation, the man has married his daughter. This in genuinely illegal.

The difference between incest and inbreeding:
"The concepts of "incest" and "inbreeding" are not synonymous.

Incest refers to socially taboo sexual activity between individuals who are considered to be too closely related to enter into marriage. In other words, it is a social and cultural term.

Inbreeding, on the other hand, refers to procreation between individuals with varying degrees of genetic closeness only, regardless of their relative social positions. It is a scientific term rather than a social or cultural term."

Parental incest is generally considered taboo and illegal the world over, even without a blood-relation:
"Incest between parents and their children, including adolescents, is considered the most severe form of sexual offense by many psychologists[citation needed] and is a criminal offense in many nations. Parental incest includes opposite-sex and same-sex forms engaged in by fathers, mothers, sons and daughters."
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incest

Even though this is a form of adult incest between consenting partners, I personally beleive that this is a betrayal of the Father-Daughter relationship.

Emeraldas

10-03-2006, 10:59 AM

Even though this is a form of adult incest between consenting partners, I personally beleive that this is a betrayal of the Father-Daughter relationship.

Exactly. The point is that they are hurting people, and this story is a perfect example of the non-scientific reasons that incest is wrong. You just can't have two kinds of relationships with someone. Because when you date your father, what happens when you "break up" with him? A huge legal and emotional mess that has screwed with everyone around them.

AqueousMessage

10-03-2006, 11:50 AM

Many things should stay in the family... sex isn't one of them.

"He told me he liked to buy furs for women and have sex with women on mink coats."

And I mean, who the hell doesn't?

Sae

10-03-2006, 01:06 PM

Incest refers to socially taboo sexual activity between individuals who are considered to be too closely related to enter into marriage. In other words, it is a social and cultural term

I strongly believe that if they truly love one another then nothing is wrong with that! They are both adults and can make their own decisions! I personally feel that if two people love each other then society should be ashamed of it's self! Now if they want to have a baby on the other hand, then they should either adopt or take eggs from the women and the sperm from another man and nurture it outside of the body for 9 months.** There's a word for that but I've forgotten what it is at the moment. Anyways, neither of them forced the other or molested them against their will so they both wanted it. I wish people would think about it before saying "ewwwww!" because that is hurtful and disrespectful. If you love someone, you should be with them.

** The reason I brought this up is because if the same gene pools mix, there is about a 70-80% (estimating) chance of the child being mentally retarded.

Sae-chan

Phate

10-03-2006, 01:33 PM

Love doesn't exist. People just want to get laid and have lotsa money.

aeroshadow

10-03-2006, 01:54 PM

Right now, I'm with f1rst children on this one. After all, one must realize that these are indeed two mature adults who have the right to make their own decisions. Whatever troubles they may encounter on the horizon should have been acknowledged, whether it be their existence or the troubles themselves, before they set off and got married. This isn't like pedophilia, where there's this whole issue of the younger person's lack of maturity forcing the child to make bad yet forgivable decisions. In the article, they, at their age, are expected to make decisions placing all responsibilities upon themselves. I can't understand why this is so "horrible".

Now, I think when discussing the ethics of this situation, simply saying "it's illegal" isn't going to mean much. It's not as if the law is ultimately what's right, as after all, I can simply say, well, "Is it right for this situation to be illegal?" I try to keep an open mind about these things despite my high anticonformist tendencies, so in a sense, I wouldn't mind challenging whoever is reading and is against all of this to convince me thoroughly and reasonably why this whole relationship is exactly wrong.

Dirty Harry

10-03-2006, 02:20 PM

I'm going to go ahead and side with this being wrong. And you faggot, what kind of thread title is this. WE DON'T ALL **** OUR MOTHERS AND RAPE OUR DAUGHTERS.

But yeah. Incest is bad. That pretty much sums up the whole thing for me.

Sae

10-03-2006, 02:31 PM

But yeah. Incest is bad. That pretty much sums up the whole thing for me.

DH, you should know better than anyone that that statement is derogatory and discriminatory.

Sae-chan

Dirty Harry

10-03-2006, 02:32 PM

DH, you should know better than anyone that that statement is derogatory and discriminatory.

Sae-chan

Please, let's not bring my sister into this.

Javer

10-03-2006, 02:34 PM

DH, you should know better than anyone that that statement is derogatory and discriminatory.

Sae-chan

"I hate murderers."

^ And so is that one!

I'm not comparing incest and murder here, I'm just saying that very few people are too sensitive to say, "Incest is bad".

Linuts

10-03-2006, 02:36 PM

Well after reading the entire article (long article is loooong) I still say this whole relationship is messed up to the core. Not because of the incest (which is debatable)...

According to Linda's testimony:

"It changed from a loving, supportive father caring for an ill, vulnerable daughter to a manipulative, contingency-based rewards/punishment relationship that created my dependence on him and gave him control and dominance over me," Linda testified. According to Linda's court complaint, McMahan again initiated an incestuous sexual relationship in April 2004 that lasted for more than a year.

And then back to McMahan's ex-wife's claim:

"How much of this is reality, I don't know," Ewell said. "There is a far greater chance that this is in her head. Way, way back when, I noticed she was very possessive of him. At my son's wedding eight to ten years ago, she really hung around him, and if anyone else was trying to talk to Bruce, she would try and get his attention. She would move in. From what I have observed, money appears to be the motivator."

And most of the details from the article suggests that this whole relationship was born on the grounds of sexual temptation, extortion and greed (Sigh... What is love...?). As far as the article is concerned, they both have serious mental/relationship problems.

The good thing out of all this is, Linda is no longer a psychologist... Whew.

Tremolo

10-03-2006, 02:40 PM

Sae

10-03-2006, 02:42 PM

Please, let's not bring my sister into this.

You have a closed mind. Anyways, we need to stop bickering or we will turn this into a flame thread and hopefully even you don't want that.

Sae-chan

Dirty Harry

10-03-2006, 02:45 PM

You have a closed mind. Anyways, we need to stop bickering or we will turn this into a flame thread and hopefully even you don't want that.

Sae-chan

THIS IS THE THREAD OF ROCKING THE **** OUT.

Sae

10-03-2006, 02:48 PM

THIS IS THE THREAD OF ROCKING THE **** OUT.

Huh? You mean saying goodbye to sex? So lost.

Sae-chan

Tremolo

10-03-2006, 02:53 PM

Before we all start rocking the **** out...Sae, what are you talking about? I'm not being nasty, but your posts in this thread have made about as much sense as a person speaking in tongues whilst on the world's scariest rollercoaster. Closed mind? Goodbye to sex? "DH, you should know better than anyone"? Is this based on past threads or something, because I'm officially one confused Trem.

Niner

10-03-2006, 02:58 PM

Okay, okay. Let's break it down. In this case, the daughter found her long lost father after years of not knowing him, and by the time they'd met up, they were both adults. So in this happenstance, it's conceivable that they could (and did) enter into a sexual relationship, being that they were, in effect, total strangers up until that point they'd met. I mean, they should have known better, but maybe her psychology studies made her a little whacked out and we all know that old rich dudes are batshit anyway.

But let's look at a different set of circumstances. Say that he'd raised her from infancy. In this case, the bond between father and daughter is supposedly one of filial care, barring pedophilia on the father's part (I hope we can at least agree that this is wrong; if not, then you've got a whole other can of worms to deal with, mmk). So in this case, is it okay for them to start a sexual relationship once they're both adults? Sure, they "love" each other, but dude. It's sex with your dad. The male figure who has raised you, cared for you, nurtured you. And you want to bang him?

C'mon now. I know they say "love conquers all" or some other cliche bullshit. But this isn't love. This is some ****ed up shit.

soundchazer

10-03-2006, 03:09 PM

It almost sounds like Koi Kaze part II.

Seriously though... this is really messed up, even for my standards. The whole idea of someone having sex with their daughter is horrible. Now if it was their cousin, that is a different matter ;)

aeroshadow

10-03-2006, 03:13 PM

But let's look at a different set of circumstances. Say that he'd raised her from infancy. In this case, the bond between father and daughter is supposedly one of filial care, barring pedophilia on the father's part (I hope we can at least agree that this is wrong; if not, then you've got a whole other can of worms to deal with, mmk). So in this case, is it okay for them to start a sexual relationship once they're both adults? Sure, they "love" each other, but dude. It's sex with your dad. The male figure who has raised you, cared for you, nurtured you. And you want to bang him?Why not? Saying that an idea is wrong because it's some ****ed up shit doesn't make any sense. I personally think that certain types of sex are some ****ed up shit, but if whoever wants to do it, let him, even though it might seem horrible. It isn't hurting anyone, and not the daughter either. She's an adult; she chose to be in the situation, and she chose as an adult. It's her choice.

Now, a whole idea that I didn't think of before was that perhaps the father might have raised the girl in that specific fashion to intentionally lead her to fall in love with him or whatever (is that even possible?). Even if that was done, despite how unethical it might seem at first, I think that this isn't wrong, either. Despite how she was raised, when she hits age eighteen, she's expected to have her own sense of judgement and it's supposed to be respected as that of an adult. In the end, no matter how ****ed-up-by-her-father it might be, it's her judgement, and saying that her judgement is wrong seems a little messed up. Also, this situation is somewhat comparable to a random guy leading a girl his age to fall in love with him, just to a more extreme extent. But in the end, if the girl is happy with the relationship and treats it maturely, there's nothing wrong going on here: in either situation.

...

Oh, and I have no idea where that nonrelevant paragraph from above came from. I must have been rambling or something.

Anyways, back to Niner's quote: why not?

Niner

10-03-2006, 03:16 PM

I hope you never have kids.

Ever.

aeroshadow

10-03-2006, 03:27 PM

I never said I was going to do anything like that. >_>

I was just trying to play devil's advocate for myself and trying to find ways to label incest as wrong (I'm clearly failing).

KiraraKim

10-03-2006, 03:31 PM

I'm baffled as to why saying "incest is bad" is "derogatory and discriminatory".

It IS bad. >_>

Kids, it's taboo for a reason.

Do any of you guys remember that X-Files episode with the horribly inbred, deformed brothers who killed people and buried a baby alive? No? Well, they're why incest is bad. That episode was scary shit.

Yeah it's called Home or something from the 4th season. It's one of the most disturbing X-Files episodes and for that show that's saying something.

I am not sure what is more messed up this news story or the fact that people think this is okay.

Emeraldas

10-03-2006, 03:32 PM

To everyone saying that they are "consenting adults" and that if they love each other and aren't hurting anyone, it's okay, read the f*cking article again. Their relationship has caused all kinds of screwed up shit, beginning with his seducing her with the promise of money and ending with three law-suits and two wounded spouses. You cannot have a sexual relationship with someone who is also supposed to be your caretaker and provider. Even though she is an adult, she should still be able to rely on her father for certain things and she can't if she's also boinking him. Any father who seduces his own child like this obviously has no concern for her emotional stability or happiness, therefore it's impossible that he loves her. Sure, they may think they're happy (it seems clear to me that he's using her for sex and she's using him for money), but they've made everyone around them stressed out and miserable. You just can't balance parental duties and romantic ones. It doesn't work out, no matter how much you want to believe that as long as they are adults, everything will be alright.

Niner

10-03-2006, 03:40 PM

aeroshadow, dude, it's all about taboos. A taboo is something that society at large has deemed unacceptable. There is a reason behind thinking this kind of stuff is wrong. It's just general guidelines that we follow. I guess in your world, sex between parents and children is okay, but in the society we live in, you're one dissenting opinion among the many millions who think that incest is a bad thing. And thank goodness for that.

Under your rationale, anything that doesn't actively harm another person is okay, right? So necrophilia and beastiality are okay with you too?

Sae

10-03-2006, 03:58 PM

kLaUS

10-03-2006, 04:52 PM

i could try to talk about taboo and society, and why people do this not really for love , but for personal gain and own sick reasons, but lets leave on a scared person's comentary: Whoa, this its just sick... why are they so proud of this ?¿ he married her for the love of god !! he wants the world to know he is doing this !!... just sick...

"He told me he liked to buy furs for women and have sex with women on mink coats."

And I mean, who the hell doesn't?

true, very true...

aeroshadow

10-03-2006, 04:53 PM

@ Emeraldas: First, I never read the article. I was just commenting on incest in general. But, fine. Even though you haven't convinced me of much, thanks for some rational explanations as to why some people might find incest wrong. At least I have a better understanding of why people like you think the way they do. At this point, I could say something on the lines of, "not all incestual relationships are like that," or "well, it's not just incestual relationships that screw up other people's lives and cause distress, there are perfectly legal relationships that can do this type of thing too", but at this point, I don't think I know enough about the topic to continue arguing.

Besides, in my experience, these kinds of debates last forever and nothing really happens. Whatever.

@ Niner: I feel that necrophilia does hurt people, and I'm not really talking about the corpse's family when I say this. I feel that it is very disrespectful to mess around with someone's corpse after they are dead. It hurts the dead person, and while I know that sounds silly, but if you think about it, you are in a sense, still around after you die so long as people remember you or you have some kind of remembrance around. Having that tarnished is just not right. If had written a novel or something, I would be greatly displeased if I knew that I would be misquoted significantly and often after my death. Even though I am currently not in my future, I do care about it.

However, if someone truly didn't mind having his or her corpse ****ed after his or her death and gave some kind of permission, (some kind of written document proving this or something like that would be helpful), I do not feel that it would be wrong for a necrophile to go mangle with his or her dead body, despite how "horrible" it is.

...

Bestiality is a little more complicated, as you have to think about animal rights, as well as whether or not it is consensual or not. First, let me say that my stance on this topic is not a strong one and is bound to change at any time.

I think nonconsensual bestiality is wrong. I do lightly believe in animal rights, and raping an animal is essentially hurting it. That's simple enough, I'm sure.

Yet, with consensual bestiality, otherwise known as zoophilia, it's more difficult. First of all, for those people who don't believe it, consensuality does occur. A common example is the family dog that gets a little too excited, some you might not have heard of is consensual sex with dolphins and reindeer after a long period of "deep" bonding (so zoophiles say).

It partially depends on one's opinion of the animal's capacity to make a mature decision. Does this animal know what is best for him? Then again, one could easily say that many adults certainly don't either.

Also, you have to consider the possible effects that could arise. Yes, there's a chance that the reindeer you just ****ed probably won't give a shit, his reindeer friends won't give a shit, and you won't "ruin" his life the same way a child molester would to a child. Then again, there's also a chance that dolphin you just ****ed will get exiled from his "pack" and likewise will have his life eternally ruined. The animal could gain a strong trust for you, and if you ever decide to stop showing up in that dolphin's habitat, there might be some, uh... emotional damage. I don't know. Either way, there are possible effects, both negligible and harmful, and you have to keep these in mind when you try to decide whether or not zoophilia is moral.

There's other stuff too, I'm sure.

I personally don't have an opinion on consensual zoophilia, as I have very little knowledge on this subject (more than most though, lol) to make an educated opinion.

...

As for taboos, I don't follow them. Didn't homosexuality used to be a taboo (I think it still is, sort of)? I believe that many taboos are too reliant on the Wisdom of Repugnance, which is an idea that states that anything you think is inherently vulgar is essentially wrong. I personally believe that this whole idea of what is inherently vulgar and what is not was partially a product of evolution. Simply put, people who wanted to **** guys, little girls, or dolphins didn't had on average less kids than straight people, so the straight people were naturally selected by evolution over those guys. The same goes for incest; people who engaged in incest got screwed up little kids who had on average less children than people who didn't. There's also the social aspect. I'm sure the screwed up kids that arose from incestual relationships probably had something to do with why the taboo is in place today. Something like that. Either way, basing morals on stuff like the arbitrary Wisdom of Repugnance seems really stupid to me.

...

Well, I'm done. If you're utterly disgusted by what I just wrote, sorry. I do appreciate your friendliness (I think) towards me despite our extremely differing opinions. *shrugs*

Phate

10-03-2006, 05:06 PM

On the topic of bestiality, I fail to see how it can ever be "consensual". When animals gain the ability and intelligence to speak to us is when I change my mind. Until that happens I don't see how it's much different from touching a giggling baby, and that's not right is it?

The act is also f*cking disgusting, but I take it that that argument isn't going to work for certain people on these forums, because who am I to say what tru luv is rite?

aeroshadow

10-03-2006, 05:10 PM

Emeraldas

10-03-2006, 05:13 PM

At this point, I could say something on the lines of, "not all incestual relationships are like that," or "well, it's not just incestual relationships that screw up other people's lives and cause distress, there are perfectly legal relationships that can do this type of thing too", but at this point, I don't think I know enough about the topic to continue arguing.

My point wasn't that every incestual relationship will end up with these same results (obviously, a lot of the harmful details involved are only there because the guy is filthy rich and powerful), but that this is the kind of crap that will almost always happen when you try to pull off relationships like these. They will constantly be inflicting pain on each other and the people around them.

Yes, there are plenty of non-incestual relationships that cause drama, suffering and confusion, but it's really hard to point to a relationship and say that just by trying to woo Person A, Person B was malicious. This guy obviously doesn't give a rat's ass about his daughter's feelings, otherwise he wouldn't have set out to seduce her in the first place (or threatened her legally when she tried to break up with him and lead a normal life, but that's another story). Even if she had been the one persuing him, no man who honestly loves his daughter would ever agree to putting her through the complication of sleeping with a man she is entitled to having an altogether different relationship with. It's completely selfish and sick.

Grasshopper

10-03-2006, 05:15 PM

Just leave it at the fact that some people here don't mind incest and that some people do. It's really that simple. No need to argue about it.

Phate

10-03-2006, 05:18 PM

Dolphins have more intelligence than you might think. They are self-conscious, believe it or not. Of course, I don't know exactly how intelligent, and obviously the same cannot be said for all animals. It really depends, which is why I don't really have an opinion on the matter.
Yes, I know how smart dolphins can be. However, they are still not up to our level, and they cannot speak directly to us in any way we can understand.

Judge: "Did this man rape you?"
Dolphin: "Yes, your honor."
Dirty Harry: "Well shit."

^ This cannot occur.

Javer

10-03-2006, 05:21 PM

Just leave it at the fact that some people here don't mind incest and that some people do. It's really that simple. No need to argue about it.

Sure there is. The point of an argument is to compare opinions and evidence in order to find the truth. If there is a truth to be found here, it's eventually going to be discovered through debate. That's what I think.

At least, it should be the point of an argument.

aeroshadow

10-03-2006, 05:24 PM

@ Emeraldas: For this case, okay.

@ Phate: Yeah, I know. Stuff like that is why zoophilia is impossible for me to accept completely. I know it won't work out in society; I was talking mostly about whether or not it was ethical, assuming that it was indeed consensual. I guess you can't really assume.

Grasshopper

10-03-2006, 05:25 PM

Sure there is. The point of an argument is to compare opinions and evidence in order to find the truth. If there is a truth to be found here, it's eventually going to be discovered through debate. That's what I think.

At least, it should be the point of an argument.

The argument loses its meaning when people start getting angry toward eachother though. Then it becomes a flaming war and that's no good.

Javer

10-03-2006, 05:39 PM

The argument loses its meaning when people start getting angry toward eachother though. Then it becomes a flaming war and that's no good.

Sure, when somebody gets off-topic. They're not.

Well, not really.

Sorrow-kun

10-03-2006, 07:48 PM

I'm siding with AS on this one.

Let's momentarily forget the case given here and consider a hypothetical of two consenting people in a healthy mental and physical relationship that just happen to be closely related. Is such a case really "wrong"? What are the significant consquences? Which are good and which are bad?

The obvious bad consequence is that any children they may have will immediately be evolutionarily disadvantaged due to a lack of gene diversity. How about we take children out of the equation, since they're a probabilistic consequence. Well, there's the personal awkwardness of the fact that at least one, if not both parties grew up together in a totally platonic relationship but are now sexual active. There's also any consequences from age difference to consider. But are these really certain consequences? After all, many couples that are completely independant of incest have similar issues to overcome and there are known strategies to help minimize the impact of both these effects.

The good consequences are obvious. I realize we're considering a purely ideal case here, but if two consenting parties are participating in a supposedly healthy and otherwise normal relationship except for the fact that they're related, then it goes without saying that there are positive consequences for the parties involved.

The big objective that seems to be coming from this thread is that it's taboo. In other words, society considers it wrong. I hate the idea of taboos, the idea that something is wrong of itself and can't be discussed and considered openly and objectively. The idea of taboos is such an ephemeral concept... it's always changing depending on society. After all, just a few decades ago, being homosexual was a taboo. Before that, the idea of racial intergration and interbreeding was a taboo. From a totally objective point of view, there's no consistency or solid logic and reason behind what society views as taboo... it almost seems as random as fashion.

No, when one considers incest in a totally utilitarian way, there doesn't appear to be a certain link between the act of incest and a disproportionally large amount of harmful consequences. Obviously, once one starts making considerations of human nature, human relationships and societal structure, it begins to become apparant that, in more cases than not, an incestual relationship will likely result in an unhealthy relationship. But, on the same side of the coin, it's not exactly like non-incest relationships always impeccably lead to healthy relationships... the very idea of that is absurd.

No, unless someone can raise a link I'm not seeing, I don't see why the act of incest itself is "wrong". There will always be positive and negative consequences attached to such a relationship, but there will always be positive and negative consequences attached to any relationship. Just as it's likely that an incestuous relationship will end in some or all of the parties involved receiving harm, there also exists a probability, as big or small as that may be (we don't really know), that the relationship will end happily.

soundchazer

10-03-2006, 08:12 PM

Yeah... I can see it now. Whenever they are in an argument, he'll end up saying "go to your room! You are grounded!" while she walks away teary eyed in her see thru black negligee.

Seriously, my main problem comes from the disfunctionality a relationship like this would have. What happens if the romance is no longer there? Will you stop loving them? Will you get jealous about their future romantic interests? I just don't see it. You may have perfectly good sex and a companion for a while, but what happens to the peternal instincts? What about if she gets pregnant and doesn't want to have the baby, but the parent does? How do you explain that to the grandkid when he/she grows older?

It is too much added drama if you ask me. Completely disfunctional.

Emeraldas

10-03-2006, 08:28 PM

Seriously, my main problem comes from the disfunctionality a relationship like this would have. What happens if the romance is no longer there? Will you stop loving them? Will you get jealous about their future romantic interests? I just don't see it. You may have perfectly good sex and a companion for a while, but what happens to the peternal instincts? What about if she gets pregnant and doesn't want to have the baby, but the parent does? How do you explain that to the grandkid when he/she grows older?

Ex-f*cking-actly. I don't really understand why this isn't clear to everyone else. It just doesn't work.

C0MPL3X

10-03-2006, 09:25 PM

Love doesn't seem to be there in this case, only greed and sexual desires. If the father really loved her, he would be happy for the girl and her relationship with another man. No, the father was not impressed, he could not see her ****ing with other men, he just had to **** her. And I don't know what came over the girl, either the money or disturbing old man fetish, but she continues her relationship with her husband while banging his father. Wrong wrong wrong, no love here, just infinite human vices that plagues us.

And I think incest can not work for many reasons. First, you have a disfunctionality as SC mentioned. Too much drama for them AND the people around you. It will isolate your friends, families, co-workers, and that is not a good thing. Second, I find it very hard to believe that a woman of 20s or 30s is willing to love a man of 50s or 60s for the rest of her life. What is this some ****ed up old man fetish? Don't tell me its love. Its either the girl wants his father's money or her desperation to get laid has reached its peak and she has found a mutual agreement.

However, there is one example of incest in literature that I find myself condoning it, 'Kafka on the shore' by haruki murakami. In this case, a teenager has an affair with an attractive woman of mid forties, who is really his mother (the novel doesn't say that because it's very subtle and ambiguous but it's kind of implied). But the boy doesn't know this, he just have a feeling that she might be his mother, and later, his heart tells him that she is definitely his mother. From what I can see, he's not in love with this aged woman, but with her younger 'ghost' which he thinks he can see at nights. He is in love with his mother's younger self which he sees inside this aged woman. And the book makes this relationship so ethereal and so beautiful.
So is this boy just one ****ed up kid in puberty undergoing a serious hallucinations?
We judge incest as taboos and condemn it, firstly because we'd like to think this is one of those aboslute moral abombinations and secondly because our logical mind says this can not work for this and this reasons. But I really wonder if there are exceptions that I can say it's beautiful, and we have eyes but see not the beauty they're seeing, and have ears but hear not their hearts beating, for they care nothing except for the presence of each other in this world that has condemned them.

*oh and the movie 'old boy' just went through my mind. I think the people who saw the movie knows what I'm talking about. Those last words he said, something like: 'We knew and we still loved each other. Can you do the same?'. Only when the guy found out at the very end, he went crazy. Before that, he was happy to be with one girl who cared for him in this horrible world and he loved her for it.

sohryu

10-03-2006, 09:42 PM

Ex-f*cking-actly. I don't really understand why this isn't clear to everyone else. It just doesn't work.
For the first part of SC's post, those situations only occur if they have a normal father/daughter relationship first. In the article Niner linked, they didn't even know each other until much later. For all we know, he viewed her (and continued to view her) as a hot babe when he met her instead of as his long lost daughter. So those paternal instincts weren't really there to begin with.

I was going to reply to something else SC said... but I've idled and forgotten what it was I was gunna say. :x

Judge: "Did this man rape you?"
Dolphin: "Yes, your honor."
Dirty Harry: "Well shit."

^ This cannot occur.
lol, it so can. Except I imagine DH to reply with something like...

Dirty Harry: "Your honor, you must understand. I only raped because the dolphin refused to go ASS TO ASS."

And I mean, who the hell doesn't?
Quoted simply because this made me laugh really hard.

Emeraldas

10-03-2006, 09:49 PM

For the first part of SC's post, those situations only occur if they have a normal father/daughter relationship first. In the article Niner linked, they didn't even know each other until much later. For all we know, he viewed her (and continued to view her) as a hot babe when he met her instead of as his long lost daughter. So those paternal instincts weren't really there to begin with.

It's even more screwed up for him to have been absent for most of her life, then to turn up later not to offer her what she should get, but a big "SURPRISE, WE'RE GONNA F*CK NOW." It's hard to judge incest by this couple's relationship because it's just so screwed up in ways not even involving incest, obviously motivated by greed, lust and power, but yeah, I think what he's doing is even worse than if he had raised her.

soundchazer

10-03-2006, 09:49 PM

For the first part of SC's post, those situations only occur if they have a normal father/daughter relationship first.

Uh... I don't know about you, but I would ask my daughter to cover up if she was wearing a see thru negligee at home. That was meant to be an ironic and tasteless joke.

sohryu

10-03-2006, 09:53 PM

Uh... I don't know about you, but I would ask my daughter to cover up if she was wearing a see thru negligee at home. That was meant to be an ironic and tasteless joke.
Baka.

I didn't mean that part of the post. I ignore dumb jokes unless they make me laugh. Which yours didn't.

:cutie

soundchazer

10-03-2006, 10:11 PM

Baka.

I didn't mean that part of the post. I ignore dumb jokes unless they make me laugh. Which yours didn't.

:cutie

Then explain yourself better womang... that was the first part of the post.

Javer

10-04-2006, 12:28 AM

Ah, the enigma that is Woman.

sohryu

10-04-2006, 01:17 PM

Then explain yourself better womang... that was the first part of the post.
Yes'm SC <3

Ah, the enigma that is Woman.

Damn straight! Don't even try to understand me; you'll get so totally lost in my deep and intense thought processes.

rly.

Niner

10-04-2006, 01:22 PM

Damn straight! Don't even try to understand me; you'll get so totally lost in my deep and intense thought processes.

rly.
A look into soh's overly complicated thought processes. (http://9.echonetwork.net/Crap/b/1159679111225.jpg)

Sae

10-04-2006, 01:45 PM

Damn straight! Don't even try to understand me; you'll get so totally lost in my deep and intense thought processes.

Does Sae-chan even have a though process? hmmmm.....:baninated Nope! Guess not!

Kuzu Ryu Sen

10-04-2006, 01:49 PM

A look into soh's overly complicated thought processes. (http://9.echonetwork.net/Crap/b/1159679111225.jpg)

A 404? Well, I suppose it fits.