Bleach on AdultSwim

[LadyYuina]

Bleach has finally aired on AdultSwim this following Saturday. I watched it and I had to admit that I liked their Japanese voices better. And Death God sounds so much better than Soul Reaper, but then the word "death" and "god" doesn't go well with Americans... They should have left it as the original Japanese word: Shinigami. These are my opinions...

Your thoughts on it, anyone?

[Ninja Realist]

Why the hell did they change it to soul reaper?

[Tremolo]

Why the hell did they change it to soul reaper?

Probably because that's how Viz translate it in the manga. And Viz licensed the anime, so I'd guess that's why.

I never thought "Death God" sounded entirely right. They're NOT gods. >_> Soul Reaper makes much more sense to me. Shinigami is good too, obviously.

And I saw the preview trailer and the voices didn't sound too bad. Could be worse.

EDIT: Jonny Yong Bosch was particularly impressive as Ichigo, I thought. Better than his Japanese counterpart who sounded too old, imo.

[Starwind Amada]

Bleach has finally aired on AdultSwim this following Saturday. I watched it and I had to admit that I liked their Japanese voices better.

That's it? That's all you can say? Give us your opinion on the dub voices before claiming that the Japanese voices are better (and don't say something like, "the dub sukz lol" or the usual purist crap). I can tell you're only saying that because you loathe dubs. Why do so many people treat all dubs like crap without even giving them a chance, yet they praise the Japanese versions like they're some kind of gift from God himself, when in reality, the Japanese version probably has mediocre acting. Plus, you have to read the subtitles, and not everyone wants to (or is able to) do that. As for this dub, give it a chance and try watching it for more than just the first episode.

Also, I think "Soul Reaper" is a better term than "Death God," mainly because the former makes it sound like Rukia is some kind of almighty being who ends lives, when really, she's just a simple warrior who kills evil souls.

[soundchazer]

I have to side with the guys as well. Soul Reaper is the best concept and a very similar one to a shinigami. Why create a new word when one in the language of the dub works well?

Some people like going overboard with the dubs sometimes. If you do a dub, go all the way

* soundchazer peddles in favor of westernizing the names vs. doing a really poor pronounciation of the Japanese one

Japanese names + English language = Hilariously poor dub rendition of them.

[Starwind Amada]

Wait a minute. Are you saying that they butchered the pronunciation of the Japanese names? First off, they didn't, and also...

YOU CAN'T COPY THE EXACT PRONUNCIATION FROM ANOTHER LANGUAGE.

You know, maybe they should've changed Ichigo's and Rukia's names to Bobby and Jessica so you would have a valid argument.

[soundchazer]

Wait a minute. Are you saying that they butchered the pronunciation of the Japanese names? First off, they didn't, and also...

YOU CAN'T COPY THE EXACT PRONUNCIATION FROM ANOTHER LANGUAGE.

You know, maybe they should've changed Ichigo's and Rukia's names to Bobby and Jessica so you would have a valid argument.

Actually, that IS my argument. I would rather have Bobby and Jessica if it means they will get the names right. The DO butcher the names 98.5% of the time. I'm sorry, but Japanese and English are two languages that do not mix well together. They are phonetically incompatible. Japanese sound as ridiculous talking in English and viceversa.

[Kei]

They kept alot of words intact in Japanese (Kidou, Zanpakutou, etc), and the pronuciation was spot on.

It was pretty good all in all, although I didn't have a chance to see all of it.

[soundchazer]

They kept alot of words intact in Japanese (Kidou, Zanpakutou, etc), and the pronuciation was spot on.

No it wasn't. It was better than in some other anime, but nowhere near spot on.

[Natsuke Takeda]

...You know, now that I watched it in AS... the story felt rushed without the subtitles.

I'm so freakin wierd.

Good start, though. But watch the DBZ freaks go bananas when the shows gets in deeper and Ichigo pulls off his most recent moves... >.>

[Grasshopper]

I thought it was all very well done. All the voices were great except for Rukias though. The voice kinda seemed like it didn't fit with her. Overall It was a good watch and I'll more than likely continue with it.

[Starwind Amada]

No it wasn't. It was better than in some other anime, but nowhere near spot on.

See, you just keep saying the same thing over and over. How exactly was the pronunciation off? Give me some specific information.

[madpierrot]

I think they did an alright job, there were some parts that I really liked and others I was not a big fan of. I liked how they keep in a lot of the Japanese terms and I liked Soul Reaper. I was also a big fan of Rukia's voice actress. I thought she did a good job with her role getting both the series and silly parts down well.

On the other hand I did not like Ichigo. Personally I feel that Johnny Young Bosch is one of the worst voice actors going. Trigun is the only dub I won't watch and he's a big reason why. There were moments when I thought he might of been ok, but those were few and far inbetween, most of the time I didn't think he did a very good job. Personally I just think he's bad at going from series to wacky comedy, yet he seems to get characters that do that a lot.

[Dirty Harry]

No it wasn't. It was better than in some other anime, but nowhere near spot on.

Guy, I've compared the two. And they really are literally spot-on. You're wrong.

[Starwind Amada]

While I certainly wouldn't say that JYB is the worst actor ever, I will say that he can pull off serious and older characters better than his comedic and younger ones. For example, he sounds great when Vash is serious in Trigun, but when Vash gets all wacky, he sounds a little awkward (except in the scenes where Vash starts screaming like a maniac; Johnny does great there). As Renton Thurston in Eureka 7, he's not too good. Johnny just can't pull off a little kid's voice that well. It sounds too forced and girly. I've only seen one episode, but I think he's pretty good as Ichigo, who doesn't strike me as the type of character to ever act funny, so I don't think there should be any problems.

[soundchazer]

See, you just keep saying the same thing over and over. How exactly was the pronunciation off? Give me some specific information.

It is kind of hard doing pronounciation explanations in written form. You should know that. That is just my opinion. If it was something different maybe I could explain it further. It is hard to show you how they went wrong when I know half the people here are native English speakers and will not be able to tell the difference.

And I'm not saying this to be a troll, or to piss anyone off, but because it is a fact that dubs done in a native tongue are hard for people to critique unless they know the language or country they come from. It is no different in Spanish when it comes to English names for example (Spanish is phonetically almost identical to Japanese, but with the advantage that Spanish at least can use several consonants together instead of using consonant+vowel syllables). Ask a Mexican to say Steve, Stereo, stamp... they will say Esteve, Estereo, Estamp, because Spanish is not use to have S as the first letter followed by a consonant.

Seriously... changing the names to westernized versions would make the dialogues flow better. I have seen it before. Spanish and European dubs have done it all the time and you don't lose anything because of it. I don't know why some people feel so insulted when this is proposed.

[Starwind Amada]

So now you WANT them to change the characters' names? Since when?

Changing the names of the characters would completely ruin the dub and would cause everyone to bitch and moan about how evil they think dub companies are. I'd rather they slightly mispronounce the names (which they don't) instead of using Western names.

[Roark]

Most voice actors I've heard mispronounce names, the same way all of us do. English speakers want to put accents in words. Not the best example, but Sakura vs. saKUra or SAkura springs to mind.

[soundchazer]

So now you WANT them to change the characters' names? Since when?

I have been asking for that for a long time. If you search through old threads, I'm sure you will find previous arguments of mine where I ask for the same thing. This is NOT the first time I do it, and you misread my first post:

Some people like going overboard with the dubs sometimes. If you do a dub, go all the way

* soundchazer peddles in favor of westernizing the names vs. doing a really poor pronounciation of the Japanese one

Changing the names of the characters DOES NOT ruin a dub. It can help ease the flow of the dialogues and make the dub BETTER, but it will still boil down to voice acting. On the other hand, using the original names will not make the dub better, but when pronounced poorly, it can decrease the quality of the dub.

I have never understood the purist mentality in dubs. The fact that you are no longer listening to the product in the original language pretty much should strip it from that "we have to keep the names to keep it pure" reasoning. And there are certain things that cannot be attained by professional actors in the English language unless they have really lived and spoken the original language for years. You may say that the pronounciation is spot on, but to me, the "R", for example, sounds too English for a Japanese name. The R sound in the English language is too distinctive and very hard to hide. So whenever the name Rukia is mentioned, for example, I can't help but cringe, just like I did when I watched a Ranma dub or when the actors and actresses were calling Chihiro's name in Spirited Away.

Am I being picky? Maybe. But those against the name changes are too. Changing names does not change the story, nor the dialogues, nor the intention of the story, unless you are making puns with the names (Like Moteuchi Youta being called Motenai (unpopular)) and even in those cases, the whole purpose of the joke will be missed by foreign audiences anyway. In fact, in cases like that, trying to recreate the joke with a westernized version of the name may actually work better. I dunno... maybe something like a guy saying "my name is Richard Johnson, but my friends call me Dick".

So it is not bad to do so, and in fact it can be quite good. I have seen it done before and more often that not it works better.

[Starwind Amada]

Ah, I see what you're saying. Before, it sounded like you were some dub-hating purist snob... well, you know.

I now see your point, and I think it is VERY valid.

[Ninja Realist]

I never thought "Death God" sounded entirely right. They're NOT gods. >_>

No but the entire point is that they ARE gods. Perhaps they aren't gods in the grandiose, Judeo-Christian sense of the word, but they are most certainly gods in the animist form that gods take in Shinto.

So Death God makes far more sense than Soul Reaper, a title that would be more appropriately applied to Enma(Yama) or possibly Izanagi who are not Shinigami.

[Illjwamh]

See, you just keep saying the same thing over and over. How exactly was the pronunciation off? Give me some specific information.
The syllabic timing and stress is off. This almost always happens when untrained Anglophones try to pronounce Japanese words or names. It's no fault of theirs of course; they're basing their pronunciation off their own linguistic capabilities, but it can get a tad irritating for those of us who have had training, or who just instinctively pick up such things.


As for "Soul Reaper" vs. "Death God", I myself prefer the former. While the latter may be the more litereal translation (neither is perfect), it's going to paint the wrong idea in many westerners' heads. A kami is not a god in the traditional Judeo-Christian sense, or even in the more classical Greco-Roman sense, so even though it's a direct translation, it's not really the concept they want to convey. Shinigami is best described as "an otherworldly/supernatural force/being that heralds dead souls to the afterlife"...or something like that. In light of this, I think saying "Soul Reaper" sums it up nicely, and is a lot easier.

[soundchazer]

The syllabic timing and stress is off. This almost always happense when untrained Anglophones try to pronounce Japanese words or names. It's no fault of theirs of course; they're basing their pronunciation off their own linguistic capabilities, but it can get a tad irritating for those of us who have had training, or who just instinctively pick up such things.

Couldn't have put it any better. And yes... I did have almost 3 years of formal Japanese training.


As for "Soul Reaper" vs. "Death God", I myself prefer the former. While the latter may be the more litereal translation (neither is perfect), it's going to paint the wrong idea in many westerners' heads. A kami is not a god in the traditional Judeo-Christian sense, or even in the more classical Greco-Roman sense, so even though it's a direct translation, it's not really the concept they want to convey. Shinigami is best described as "an otherworldly/supernatural force/being that heralds dead souls to the afterlife"...or something like that. In light of this, I think saying "Soul Reaper" sums it up nicely, and is a lot easier.

And also easier for people to relate to. I think the characters from a western standpoint resemble a grim reaper more than they do a death god. Another good concept might have been a valkyrie, but given that a) they herald souls of honorable dead warriors, b) all of them are women, c) Someone might confuse them with an 80s mecha, then Grim Reaper it is.

[LadyYuina]

That's it? That's all you can say? Give us your opinion on the dub voices before claiming that the Japanese voices are better (and don't say something like, "the dub sukz lol" or the usual purist crap). I can tell you're only saying that because you loathe dubs. Why do so many people treat all dubs like crap without even giving them a chance, yet they praise the Japanese versions like they're some kind of gift from God himself, when in reality, the Japanese version probably has mediocre acting. Plus, you have to read the subtitles, and not everyone wants to (or is able to) do that. As for this dub, give it a chance and try watching it for more than just the first episode.

Also, I think "Soul Reaper" is a better term than "Death God," mainly because the former makes it sound like Rukia is some kind of almighty being who ends lives, when really, she's just a simple warrior who kills evil souls.

On the contrary I do not dislike dubbed anime, in all actuality I like both of them. It was in my OPINION that I liked the Japanese voices more for this anime. I never said I didn't like dubbed material... Watch for yourself next Saturday and then you can decide for yourself which one you liked better or thought of them equally... or whatever you wanna say about it. It airs at 12:30 am pst.

[Starwind Amada]

Um, Bleach already premiered this weekend. So I've already seen it.

[Dreamescape]

I really like this dub. Or at least, the first episode.

I like that they kept Zanpaktou and Kidou. Also, Soul Reaper is the correct term since it's the translation that Kubo Tite himself wanted. So I see no problem. I think they Viz would have went with Shinigami though if they didn't use Soul Reaper.

The VA's for the main characters were pretty good. I didn't expect Johnny to sound this good as Ichigo but I think his voice fits perfectly. I also like what they did with Rukia 'cause I think she's an interesting character in gengeral. When watching the dubs.. she had more of a tough girl voice. This is in complete contrast to how girls usually sound in animes. It was also funny how she'd do that stupid voice when at school that was kinda pokin fun at that type of voice used for girls. With the dub, they gave her a voice that's a lot more feminine.But she speaks in a kind of dead paan tone so in a way it gives off the same type of vibe. She's still her own anime girl character. I can't wait to see how Michelle does next week when they first have Rukia in school.

[AlterGenesis-X]

From what the studio's reported it seems they're working farily hard to make this a successful dub. Now, for my opinion. I rather enjoyed the fact that the original OPs and EDs were there, it simply got me more amped to hear the dub. So, to start I was in a good mood.

...let's put it this way. AGX was a relatively happy man when the episode ended. For the most part, considering that this was the first episode, it wasn't bad at all. I rather enjoyed rewatching an episode I had seen all those years back. I had been reading several articles on how the VAs were recieving pronunciation training in order to say words to the best of their ability and although I'm no longer a fan of Bleach (stop watching at around Episode 78) I'm happy that other anime fans will be able to enjoy another show.

(I only fear the hordes of new Bleach fans coming to my door and talking to me about it. :s)

[Zirilan]

From what the studio's reported it seems they're working farily hard to make this a successful dub. Now, for my opinion. I rather enjoyed the fact that the original OPs and EDs were there, it simply got me more amped to hear the dub. So, to start I was in a good mood.

Same thing happened to me, at first I noticed that bleach would be on so I left the tv on and decided to let it run in the background like I let a lot shows I "watch" do while I'm on the computer. Hearing the original opening immediately picued my interest and I actually watched it instead of just half-listening to it.

For the voice acting, I thought it was pretty good. Now keep in mind that I have no formal training whatsoever in anything Japanese so the names and the words they did keep sounded good to me. When I first heard Ichigo's voice I'll admit that Vash was the first thing to come to mind and it took me a couple minutes to let that image go so I could focus on Johnny's current character. The voice for Rukia was more mellow and bored tone than I pictured it would be, but it suits the character since she is hundreds of years old.

As for using "Soul Reaper" instead of "Death God" I have to think that it does seem like a better term. Whenever I read "Death God" in the sub I could shake away the word "god" and would think of the character as a very powerful being no matter which Shinigami was being referrred to. So this translation is much more suitable for the Western culture. As for using "Shinigami" instead, I think "Soul Reaper" is better since it helps non-Japanese speaking people have a better idea of what the character is suppose to be. I am happy that they kept "Zanpakutou" and "Kidou" though, they seem to give them more of the spiritual/magical essense they have.

[jiffyjimbothe3]

EDIT: Jonny Yong Bosch was particularly impressive as Ichigo, I thought. Better than his Japanese counterpart who sounded too old, imo.

I have yet to see it, but Jonny Yong Bosch is my favorite English VA. He was particularly good as Vash from Trigun and Claus from Last Exile. Though I do remember him being awful in Gatekeepers.

[Illjwamh]

He'll always be Vash to me. :p

Not that that's a bad thing, since he did a spectacular job in that role, and it sure beats remembering him as the second black power ranger. Haha.

He sounded good as Ichigo, but it's only been one episode so far after all. I can't remember anything else that he's particularly wowed me in, and he's one of those VAs that, while not bad, I get tired of hearing in auxiliary roles in every other anime that's dubbed. Kind of like Scott McNeil.

[Starwind Amada]

What about Steve Blum? He's in just about everything (and rightfully so).

[Illjwamh]

Yeah, him too. He's good and all, but I have to admit I'm tired of hearing Spike all over the place.

[Ieyasu]

Guys, before you say you want to change the names, think about it from the point of view of the creator.

Personally, when I write a story, I try my hardest to pick names that I think fit the characters. I don't mean picking names that mean something relating to the character, I mean I spend alot of time picking a name that SOUNDS good and fits the character.

For instance, I way recently toying with naming a character James, but then decided it wasn't as weighty or as mature as I wanted it, so I chose Jacob. In my opinion, a far better name for the character.

Now imagine my story is translated into Japanese for some inexplicable reason, and all of a sudden Jacob becomes Hiroshi. My original intention in giving the character the name Jacob is royally screwed and left for dead in a back alley.

I'd much rather prefer they used the names that I gave my characters, no matter how badly they pronounce them. After all, I picked them for a reason. I wanted my character to be called Jacob, not some radomly selected Japanese name.

In the end, keeping the original Japanese names won't make or break the dub, so why not use the names the creator originally intended?

[soundchazer]

Guys, before you say you want to change the names, think about it from the point of view of the creator.

Personally, when I write a story, I try my hardest to pick names that I think fit the characters. I don't mean picking names that mean something relating to the character, I mean I spend alot of time picking a name that SOUNDS good and fits the character.

For instance, I way recently toying with naming a character James, but then decided it wasn't as weighty or as mature as I wanted it, so I chose Jacob. In my opinion, a far better name for the character.

Now imagine my story is translated into Japanese for some inexplicable reason, and all of a sudden Jacob becomes Hiroshi. My original intention in giving the character the name Jacob is royally screwed and left for dead in a back alley.

I'd much rather prefer they used the names that I gave my characters, no matter how badly they pronounce them. After all, I picked them for a reason. I wanted my character to be called Jacob, not some radomly selected Japanese name.

In the end, keeping the original Japanese names won't make or break the dub, so why not use the names the creator originally intended?

There are a couple of things I disagree with in your assestment:

a) Poorly pronounced names can indeed break the dub by making it dip in its quality.

b) The intention of the name behind the character will be lost for those non-Japanese speakers, so even if the author has a specific intention behind the name, it won't make any difference to the foreign audience.

Think about it... even in the way we go about history we change the names:

Cristoforo Colombo - Cristobal Colon - Christopher Columbus
Thomas Moore - Tomas Moro
Queen Elizabeth II - Reina Isabel II

It is not such a big deal. If you want purity, watch the product in the original language instead.

[Ieyasu]

Hmm. I guess.

As I rule I avoid dubs of anything at all. Films or anime. They can be good, but I'm a stickler for wanting to see a show/film/whatever how it was intended.

I'd buy MGS3 in Japanese if I could...

[Major Tom]

I am going to have to agree with SC on the issue of dubbing. I cannot recall any dub where the names were not mispronouced, and I also cannot recall any Japanese were english wasn't (sometimes horribly) mangled (except maybe some parts in BECK, and a section of Bokura ga ita. But that was swearing, as is normally the case when learning a new language, one usually learns how to swear quite proficiently rather quickly). I'm sure there are probably some that some that are really good in that regard, I just haven't heard them.

Illjwamh is right on the money when it comes to pronunciation. English has many accents and stresses that are required to make words sound correct, but are not present in Japanese. And when native english speakers transplant these linguistic habits into Japanese it sounds off. I supposed the one that pisses me off at the moment would be Naruto. It seems to roll off the english tongue as something like N'rootoe.

But if you are going to dub, best to go all out. You will probably find that there are direct tranlsations of many common names anyway, so it's not as if the translator will pick some arbitary names out of the air, and even if there isn't a direct translation, a professional translator will choose a name that will put across the images and connotations the original name was aiming to achieve. I've seen a few Hong Kong films, Jackie Chan and the like, and both the subs and dubs use names like Sammy and Joe, and these aren't in the original dialogue.

The only place where such a translation can fail is with Japanese puns. I don't think there is equivalents in the english language for that kind of thing. Of course, mispronunciation can have bad side effects as well. As in trying to say one thing and either coming out with gibberish or something completely different to what you wanted to say. I know someone who has a Hungarian name, but in the end had to change it (well, translate it into english) because people kept mispronouning it as the Serb word for murderer......

[Knives]

i really applaud adult swim for showin shows that im currently making part of my anime diet..
that being said, after watchin it somewhat faithfully with subtitles, i could never watch/re-watch it dubbed.. its almost has a nails on the chalkboard efffect on me.
however, i truly believe that if i had never seen bleach before and clicked to adult swim and sampled it, its the genre and animation style that would have drawn me towards wanting to see more, regardless of the dub..
most likely, seeing BLEACH on ASwim would lead me to start downloading like a madman. case in point, samurai champloo and me.. not the greatest of series, but again the genre and animation style hooked me.

if you think about it, its a good look for AS to air shows like BLEACH b\c they have the simplicity and the longevity to be successful for them in the long run.. dubbed or not, AS gets their props .. from me at least

[Ari]

As for "Soul Reaper" vs. "Death God", I myself prefer the former. While the latter may be the more litereal translation (neither is perfect), it's going to paint the wrong idea in many westerners' heads. A kami is not a god in the traditional Judeo-Christian sense, or even in the more classical Greco-Roman sense, so even though it's a direct translation, it's not really the concept they want to convey. Shinigami is best described as "an otherworldly/supernatural force/being that heralds dead souls to the afterlife"...or something like that. In light of this, I think saying "Soul Reaper" sums it up nicely, and is a lot easier.

I think Illjwamh makes a good point.

However, I think there's an important distinction between names of people and categories or descriptions. If it's a description you want to translate the meaning not the sound (as shinigami means nothing to your average american). But I think a name classifies as something different.

Cristoforo Colombo - Cristobal Colon - Christopher Columbus
Thomas Moore - Tomas Moro
Queen Elizabeth II - Reina Isabel II

For me these are acceptable translations, because it's understood that in those languages they're meant to be the translation of the same name. There might be cases in a story where even these are not acceptable as the name is some kind of pun or something, but for the most part I think this kind of translation is fine. However, changing the name completely I think is disrespecting the artist. I don't speak Greek, so I read the Iliad in translated form; but would it be acceptable to me if they changed Achilles name to John? Certainly not. Names are connected to stories and changing them may impact the story in some way. Now I'll understand if you say Bleach is not such a sacred example that it matters if a name or 2 is changed; but as a question of ideals, I thought I'd give my thoughts.