The Americanization of Japanimation

[Evanlor]

Hello Fellow Academy Students!

OK, for a while now I've been bothered by the creeping influence of the US market on Japanese animation. Since anime has become a money maker for a number of media outlets lately, it seems that the shows are beginning to move away from traditional Japanimation styles towards those that geared to a wider audience.

Some of this is good - I like it when character stereotypes and other such nonsensical molds get busted (see: Monster, etc). But some if it is disturbing, too: For example, anime that goes on far longer than it should (Inuyasha, Naruto, Bleach, Blood+).

What do you think? Are there other ways that anime is changing because of the allure of the American market? Is this a trend you think may continue, or is it one that will only influence in subtle ways without overwhelming anime as we know it? You two cents are requested!

-Evan

[Mana]

I don't think the length of newer shows has much (if anything) to do with American influence. After all, there have been long series throughout anime's history (Galaxy Express 999, Urusei Yatsura, etc). I do think we see some American influence in modern anime, but in more subtle ways.

Then of course there's the whole thing about anime coming to be because of American cartoons anyway.

[soundchazer]

Using Monster is a bad example. Naoki Urasawa started writing and penciling the manga all the way back in 1994, before the anime boom hit the States, and the anime counterpart is good translation of the manga.


Series lasting longer than usual is not new. Naruto and Bleach are carbon copies of DBZ even in the length of the story. Inu Yasha? Think about it... the shortest anime inspired in a Rumiko Takahashi manga with more than 5 volumes published has been Maison Ikkoku, at 96 episodes. Ranma 1/2 and Urusei Yatsura have well over a 100 episodes each.


The subtle changes in anime come from a different source, mainly musical in nature (see Blood +, Mushishi, Beck) and American companies funding some anime (like Blood +). As far as changing the format, I don't see that. It would be kind of silly too. If the product as is racks millions of dollars from western markets, why would you change it?

[Mana]

Think about it... the shortest anime inspired in a Rumiko Takahashi manga with more than 5 volumes published has been Maison Ikkoku, at 96 episodes. Not true... her Mermaid Saga and Rumic Theatre anime were both a lot shorter. Both are fairly unknown, though, since they're aren't like her standard works.

[Apolyion]

I don't see more western influence on anime than the rest of Japanese culture. Even in terms of music, I don't think anime soundtracks have more western influence on them than the Japanese music industry at large does.

I do think formats have changed... but not in terms of more shows running longer because of western infatuation with Naruto or InuYasha, but rather more shows running shorter and not getting licensed for western markets. There are plenty of 12 and 13 episode TV series being produced now when in years past these shows would either have been OVAs or (more likely) never would've been made at all.

Atop that, a lot of recent shows seemingly are aiming more towards Japanese fandom with their many "in-jokes" about other anime and their references to Japanese culture/pop culture and folklore. Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu was full of this, as is xxxHolic and Ouran Host Club.

The average Cartoon Network anime fan won't get a lot of things in quite a number of recent anime series, at least not without translator's notes to help them or without what amounts to rewrites of the scripts to use references that westerners would get.

Heck, even in the Witchblade anime TV series - which is a spinoff of an American comic and is being developed in cooperation with its American creators - the main character gets the nickname "Masamune" which is a Japanese pun on her (unusually large) breasts as well as the fact that she's the Witchblade's wielder, that probably wouldn't translate into English at all.

[Mana]

Atop that, a lot of recent shows seemingly are aiming more towards Japanese fandom with their many "in-jokes" about other anime and their references to Japanese culture/pop culture and folklore. Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu was full of this, as is xxxHolic and Ouran Host Club.

Again, that's not just recent anime. Have you seen the culture notes on Urusei Yatsura? Of course the Japanese are going to use jokes that only Japanese would get, and it's happened for decades worth of anime.

[Apolyion]

Actually, I haven't watched most of Urusei Yatsura... just a movie or OVA that I only fuzzily remember now. I did watch Rumic Theater (good stuff) and Maison Ikkoku before InuYasha killed much of my desire to see more of Takahashi's anime. :( But I (rightly or wrongly) think of Urusei Yatsura as a particularly long-running and early tsundere comedy, that's probably pretty good but that I have little desire to watch.

Anyway... on topic, it helps show that anime hasn't changed that much under western influence hehe. Yay, I coopted your post and used it as evidence towards mine in an act of forum judo!

[Roark]

Yay, I coopted your post and used it as evidence towards mine in an act of forum judo!

You had a rather easy task, since you were pretty much saying the same thing. If you read Mana's post, especially the part of yours that she quoted, she was responding to your assertion that shows are targetting MORE towards Japanese fandom, which doesn't make any sense, since 99% of shows did that anyhow.

[soundchazer]

Not true... her Mermaid Saga and Rumic Theatre anime were both a lot shorter. Both are fairly unknown, though, since they're aren't like her standard works.

I said "the shortest anime inspired in a Rumiko Takahashi manga with more than 5 volumes published"

Mermaid Saga, Mermaid's Scar and Memaid's gaze are comprised in 3 volumes.

Rumic Theater anime is a compilation of short stories that are a part of the Rumic World series of manga which is also 3 volumes long and some shorter one volume books like "The Tragedy of P", "The Red Bouquet" and "The Executive's Dog"

Curiously enough, the best stories from the Rumic World series are NOT part of the Rumic Theater anime, but where released as OVAs back in the 80s: Maris the Choujo, Laughing Target and FireTripper.

Additionaly, another Rumiko Takahashi manga was also released as OVA back in the late 80s: One Pound Gospel. That one was based on the 2 volume manga of the same name.

The only anime of those mentioned I have yet to watch complete (and I never will) is Inu Yasha. I used to have this thing for Rumiko Takahashi's work. Unfortunately, only Maison Ikkoku, Laughing Target and FireTripper proved to be great. The Mermaid related material is like a rollercoaster with ups and downs. Ditto for Theater. Ranma 1/2 was great the first couple of seasons and the rest of the TV series and movies are crap (the OVA is the only other "quality" material). Inu Yasha... well... it is repetitive crap.

In any case... her long and popular series were all over 90 episodes long, even before Inu Yasha, so that has no bearing on any "Americanization" that may or may not be taking place in anime.


Edit: I don't know I would call Urusei yatsura "tsundere" since Lum pretty much fell in love with Ataru since episode one and her devotion to him never falters. Usually a big element of tsundere involves the girl resisting the guy's advances, being cold to him but gradually coming around and falling in love.

[f1rst children]

OK, for a while now I've been bothered by the creeping influence of the US market on Japanese animation. Since anime has become a money maker for a number of media outlets lately, it seems that the shows are beginning to move away from traditional Japanimation styles towards those that geared to a wider audience.

I don't think it's Americanization (ie done for the American market), but anime has followed the trend towards greater usage of CGI, notably the opening of the Golgo 13 movie about a year after Tron was released.

Unlike America, Japan has mostly kept the obvious CGI to non-character parts of the animation, possibly as a result of the failure of the Final Fantasy movie. As a result, CGI environments and objects are pretty common, but many characters still retain a traditional hand-drawn look. The US meanwhile has gone hogwild on CGI in all aspects of the animation.

[KiraraKim]

The only anime of those mentioned I have yet to watch complete (and I never will) is Inu Yasha. I used to have this thing for Rumiko Takahashi's work. Unfortunately, only Maison Ikkoku, Laughing Target and FireTripper proved to be great. The Mermaid related material is like a rollercoaster with ups and downs. Ditto for Theater. Ranma 1/2 was great the first couple of seasons and the rest of the TV series and movies are crap (the OVA is the only other "quality" material). Inu Yasha... well... it is repetitive crap.

Although I will give you that Inuyasha and Ranma are both repetitive at times it's not fair to judge Rumiko Takahashi on the anime you can only judge her work on the manga. Besides excellent voice acting I never thought the Ranma 1/2 anime was a good adaptation of the manga. Inuyasha was a slightly better adaptation but it had way too much filler and had a horrible ending. I think Rumiko Takahashi is a wonderful storyteller but I do think she has issues with ending her stories. I personally hope she decides for a shorter story after Inuyasha. Ah well I'm a fan.

And I really wish the OVA with Laughing Target and Firetripper would be released in the states. I loved both those short stories.

Woah I am getting off topic. Personally I don't notice any American influences on Japanese anime. I mean I am sure mangaka and anime producers might be influenced by American shows and movies that air in Japan but I don't see a whole sweeping influence.


As a result, CGI environments and objects are pretty common, but many characters still retain a traditional hand-drawn look. The US meanwhile has gone hogwild on CGI in all aspects of the animation.

Which I am happy about it because personally I hate all the CGI and 3d animation that has taken over here. It was innovative and cool at first but I miss 2D animation.

[soundchazer]

And I really wish the OVA with Laughing Target and Firetripper would be released in the states. I loved both those short stories.



Actually, they were both issued in the States by Central Park Media... back in the days of VHS tapes. I still have those tapes lying around somewhere.

Regarding the CGI dilemma, don't fret. Disney is going back into 2D... The irony is it took John Lasseter, Mr. 3D animation (Creator of Toy Story and Cars), for Disney to realize how dumb they were in closing the 2D studios. Now that he is the Chief Creative Officer at Disney, he was instrumental in reviving the 2D studios.

[jetfire]

Odd. I don't think Blood+ is too much longer than it needs to be (I asmot that it's slowed down a bit since the 35th episode, but hardly any of it is filler). While 26 episodes is usually the standard amount of episodes needed to tell a good story, 50 - 52 episode series can work wonders, such as FMA. Even ssome series that go arounbd 74 -76 episodes like Monster or Hajime No Ippo can do it well. I think that when a certain anime crosses over the 80 episode mark, or at most the 100 episodes, it's been going on for too long.

[Roark]

Actually, they were both issued in the States by Central Park Media... back in the days of VHS tapes. I still have those tapes lying around somewhere.

Regarding the CGI dilemma, don't fret. Disney is going back into 2D... The irony is it took John Lasseter, Mr. 3D animation (Creator of Toy Story and Cars), for Disney to realize how dumb they were in closing the 2D studios. Now that he is the Chief Creative Officer at Disney, he was instrumental in reviving the 2D studios.
Don't forget, he's also one of the key influences in Region 1 having access to high quality releases of Miyazaki films.

[fugupinkeye]

The subtle changes in anime come from a different source, mainly musical in nature (see Blood +, Mushishi, Beck) and American companies funding some anime (like Blood +). As far as changing the format, I don't see that. It would be kind of silly too. If the product as is racks millions of dollars from western markets, why would you change it?

Agreed. Part of the allure of anime is watching a show from a different culture, and all the wonderful, often subtle things that go along with that.

As for some American effect on anime, I don't see much of it. Annoyingly the opposite seems to be happening. In my observations, I think a lot of american animation is being heavily influenced by the stylings of anime, from Boondocks to the pink haired girl selling insurance (I think) on tv commercials.

[Kaioshin_Sama]

Here's what I think, a lot of Anime production companies in Japan seem to produce projects that they believe will appeal to certain short sighted American Anime Licensors. Specifically one who I will let people figure out on there own, it shouldn't be too hard. I don't know if its just the way it is on the licensors end or if its a deliberate marketing campaign by the Anime producers themselves, but that one company seems be pushing a specific type of product in short "comedic" series with a splash of fan service and the American industry as a whole seems to be pushing mainly the long-running action series, and the former specifically seems to be on the rise among animation project types in Japan. Perhaps I'm also too cynical as well.

[kyubichan]

As for some American effect on anime, I don't see much of it. Annoyingly the opposite seems to be happening. In my observations, I think a lot of american animation is being heavily influenced by the stylings of anime, from Boondocks to the pink haired girl selling insurance (I think) on tv commercials.

True.

Japan has been influenced by the West even before we were born (darn you, Commodore Perry!) , see their sera-fuku? The Japanese have been able to successfully combine their culture and tradition with outside influences for decades, and unless we see Naruto with a flowing red cape and an "S" on his shirt, saving people without anyone knowing who he really is, I think we can all calm down for now.

OT: Anime have a lot of jokes that only the Japanese will get (like the changing of Kanji to kana, giving words a different meaning), which is why I prefer "subbed" rather than "dubbed". That is all.

[Apolyion]

I have the Laughing Target and Fire Tripper OVAs in my VHS tape collection as well. :) Such a great find.

It's important to remember that most of these longrunning shounen action series were/are enormous hits in Japan well before they hit America. There's not a lot of reason to believe that Bleach and Naruto and InuYasha are being dragged out interminably because of the US audience, when the Japanese audience is still buying into them.

[fugupinkeye]

OT: Anime have a lot of jokes that only the Japanese will get (like the changing of Kanji to kana, giving words a different meaning), which is why I prefer "subbed" rather than "dubbed". That is all.

Yea, I don't wish to see such humor go away. I have no problem pausing to read an explanation, it's just part of the experience.

[Evanlor]

As for some American effect on anime, I don't see much of it. Annoyingly the opposite seems to be happening. In my observations, I think a lot of american animation is being heavily influenced by the stylings of anime, from Boondocks to the pink haired girl selling insurance (I think) on tv commercials.

True enough, and I wholeheartedly agree with the preference for subbed anime, if only to read liner notes!

However, I still have a sneaking suspicion that just as anime is affecting American animation, so will the lure of the American market affect stories and plots in Japanimation.

In my eyes this is playing out in series length, and will be followed by content changes. A series used to rarely run longer than 26 episodes, and now that is increasingly more common. This is often a milking of the market more than anything else, which American animation has done for years (when was the last time you watched an American animation that actually ENDED). You also see it in the shorter series, where marketers are trying to determine if they should take a greater financial risk on a series of questionable profitability.

This makes economic sense, but also plays into the idea of an economic incentive to change content to fit the American market (or Chinese, or wherever the money is at).

Are any of you also seeing this, or if not, can you envision the type of content changes that may occur in the future as companies compete for global dollars in other markets?

-Evan

[Starwind Amada]

True enough, and I wholeheartedly agree with the preference for subbed anime, if only to read liner notes!

You can still see liner notes during dubs. There's usually a subtitle options that subtitles signs, songs and shows liner notes. That, or they're on the extras menu or printed in the insert. So dubs don't eliminate anything in that regard.

[Ieyasu]

*cough*

Afro Samurai, anyone?

[Starwind Amada]

That anime was created for American audiences, and anyway, just because it features Samuel as the lead and has hip-hop music doesn't mean it's Americanized. Don't tell me you think it's some intellectual samurai drama that got licensed and is now being completely changed, because that's totally wrong.

[LadyYuina]

Well, to me if an anime goes on and on... it stands to point that it is popular so the show must go on (well, in accordance to the creators and the issue of making money). Also, I don't think Americans have much say in the animation community. Japanese people still flush out tons of anime that is unquiely their style, and the market will probably only have a subtle impact.

[PsychoSaiya-jin]

Hello Fellow Academy Students!

OK, for a while now I've been bothered by the creeping influence of the US market on Japanese animation. Since anime has become a money maker for a number of media outlets lately, it seems that the shows are beginning to move away from traditional Japanimation styles towards those that geared to a wider audience.

Some of this is good - I like it when character stereotypes and other such nonsensical molds get busted (see: Monster, etc). But some if it is disturbing, too: For example, anime that goes on far longer than it should (Inuyasha, Naruto, Bleach, Blood+).

What do you think? Are there other ways that anime is changing because of the allure of the American market? Is this a trend you think may continue, or is it one that will only influence in subtle ways without overwhelming anime as we know it? You two cents are requested!

-Evan

Some of the oldest shows, like Doreamon, are still running to this day.
The only shows which have had their development directly influenced by the west are those that are partially funded by them. For example: Dead Leaves.

[bach_ngoc17]

The reason I like anime is because of the different style it is, if its americanized it might as well be called cartoons and I don't like that as much. Anime is so much more complicated than cartoons with all the different plots and twists besides just pure entertainment like most cartoon. Due to the way anime characters are drawn most people with even a little bit of knowledge on it could spot it on sight and know its not a cartoon.

[Chi]

From what I've seen most anime are still keeping to the old way of doing things. Remember they still have to think of thier primary audience. Which is the Japanese. They might throw in a couple things to Americanize shows a tiny bit. But for the most part anime still seems the same. As for the legnth, most hero anime run longer than 26 eps and some even run over 100. Sailor Moon has if I remember correctly about 300 eps. So nothing has really changed it's just that we are getting more anime and tend to notice more.

[Mana]

From what I've seen most anime are still keeping to the old way of doing things. Remember they still have to think of thier primary audience. Which is the Japanese. They might throw in a couple things to Americanize shows a tiny bit. But for the most part anime still seems the same. As for the legnth, most hero anime run longer than 26 eps and some even run over 100. Sailor Moon has if I remember correctly about 300 eps. So nothing has really changed it's just that we are getting more anime and tend to notice more.

Actually, SailorMoon only had 200 episodes, with a couple movies and OAV thrown in. There are plenty shows with more, though.

[Chi]

200 I couldn't remember the number, it's been so long since I've been into Sailor Moon.

[Ieyasu]

That anime was created for American audiences, and anyway, just because it features Samuel as the lead and has hip-hop music doesn't mean it's Americanized. Don't tell me you think it's some intellectual samurai drama that got licensed and is now being completely changed, because that's totally wrong.

I'm aware of that.

If it's made for American audiences by a prominent animation company like GONZO, don't you think that's just a teensy little sign that the anime industry is becoming somewhat more Americanised? Pitching a show directly at the Americans, with American voice talent and musicians would seem to indicate that.

Don't be so fast to assume people are uniformed. Try thinking before you type.

[Chi]

I'm aware of that.

If it's made for American audiences by a prominent animation company like GONZO, don't you think that's just a teensy little sign that the anime industry is becoming somewhat more Americanised? Pitching a show directly at the Americans, with American voice talent and musicians would seem to indicate that.

Don't be so fast to assume people are uniformed. Try thinking before you type.I think it's to early to tell. This one anime only shows that they are willing to try, not that they are going to start making more Americanised anime. I'll have to see more Americanised anime before I believe that Japan is starting Americanise more anime.