extreme de ja voo...

[kobi666]

hello guys, im preety new here and i guess i haven't watched anime as much as you guys but i just finished watching gungrave and i had the most extreme de ja voo's.
after a while of staring at the screen and thinking why do i get this
i realized. the hero looks like a nicer form of VICIOUS the little girl looks and dresses like Seres Victoria and the bad guy (the big bad guy that is...) looks and acts exactly like millions knives!
i cant help but think, is this the begging of the end to charachter design?
do all the characters we'll see in 5 or 6 years be replicas of anime from the past? i'm very troubled someone please make me relax!!!!

[Ninja Realist]

What?

Both of those comparisons are totally off.

[Tremolo]

So...with all the characters in anime out there, the fact some might look ever so slightly similar is a big deal?

It really isn't. Just vague coincidence. There's only so many different kinds of character designs out there. Gungrave and Trigun share the same character designer, by the way. As for Hellsing and Bebop - the same kind of style is there. I wouldn't worry about it.

Not sure how Bloody Harry is anything like Knives though.

And it's "déjà vu". >_>

[Starwind Amada]

I couldn't read your terrible grammar, and it's deja vu, not "de ja voo."

[kobi666]

sorry for my grammer, its in french so i didnt really know how to spell it...

and tremolo, try to take a look at both knives and harry.
sharp eyes, sharp hair, very simillar character development.
both knives and harry were childhood friends with the protogonist
both were still friends even though they knew their objectives were different and contradicting, both were protected by the hero to the very end (i bet knives would be a very nice person if there was another episode of trigun...)
both were overcome with the will to rule to be free and to be superior.
i'm telling you, its the same character!

[silan]

sorry for my grammer, its in french so i didnt really know how to spell it...
Ha ha. No one knows how to spell in French, except crazy French peoples themselves.

If you're saying that characters are basically the same archetype, you're right.

There's nothing new under the sun. If you watch enough anime, you'll see the same kinds of characters over and over again: the angsty anti-hero, the do-gooder hero, the inept-at-love schoolgirl/boy who is for some reason the object of desire of everyone with a sex drive, the villain who used to be friends with the hero but through some tragic backstory is no longer on the side of good.... whatever.

Don't be worried about this, though, because an anime can have the most cliched characters in the world... but if it is able to pull off a good plot and develop those characters in an interesting way, then it can still be a really good anime.

If.

[kyubichan]

There's nothing new under the sun. If you watch enough anime, you'll see the same kinds of characters over and over again:

True. It's the same for almost everything else in the entertainment business. If you look at movies within the same genre, you'll notice a lot of similarities as well. Even in games, there's a certain formula they stick to. It doesn't help that you worry about it, so just sit back and try to enjoy it, and like the show for what it is.

[animanic_critic]

Sure they sound the same, but this convention is nothing new. It's been around for a long time, and Trigun and Gungrave are no exception. Shinn Asuka and Kira Yamato from Gundam SEED Destiny and Gundam SEED are very much identical in character for instance.

In the end, it's the presentation and story portrayal that count. Putting aside the same director and coincidental titles, the two titles AND the characters are overall still distinguishable from one another.

[kobi666]

a thought comes to my mind
maybe everything is the same.
if you think about it the world itself and the life surounding it keep
moving in circles. maybe stories of all sorts make the same route.
maybe we all know those charachters well. from anime, from our lives (very important for an anime fan to know that its not real... lol). were all protogonists if we live our lives the way we want and were all antagonists if we don't. that's the reason some people hate themseleves i think. their the bad guys in their own movie. wow , regarding life as a pre-written script makes me feel everything and anything we do or don't will just be a twist in the plot, nothing wrong or right. well five more minutes of thinking in that path is a sure way to get my neighboors below a new bloody-corpse decoration on their lawn.... would look well next to the garden dwarves...

[kyubichan]

Wow, what an insight. And it's "protagonist", my dear.

well five more minutes of thinking in that path is a sure way to get my neighboors below a new bloody-corpse decoration on their lawn.... would look well next to the garden dwarves...

That gives me an idea...

[silan]

This thread has taken a rather morbid turn.

[General Suburbia]

It makes me lol.

[Ninja Realist]

a thought comes to my mind
maybe everything is the same.
if you think about it the world itself and the life surounding it keep
moving in circles. maybe stories of all sorts make the same route.
maybe we all know those charachters well. from anime, from our lives (very important for an anime fan to know that its not real... lol). were all protogonists if we live our lives the way we want and were all antagonists if we don't. that's the reason some people hate themseleves i think. their the bad guys in their own movie. wow , regarding life as a pre-written script makes me feel everything and anything we do or don't will just be a twist in the plot, nothing wrong or right. well five more minutes of thinking in that path is a sure way to get my neighboors below a new bloody-corpse decoration on their lawn.... would look well next to the garden dwarves...

Protagonist or antagonist is in the eye of the beholder.

[aoi_n_asul]

life is not pre-meditated. there's such a thing as freewill.

[Dark Lord]

life is not pre-meditated. there's such a thing as freewill.

However... It is also possible that something divine guides and influences events and decisions that may occur in this world, while at the same time giving us, humans, the illusion of free will... Showing there is such thing as destiny...

[kobi666]

i can't say anything about divine intervantion. and by the way i didn't mean it like that. what i meant was, what if wer'e all just acting in our movies? like nothing is serious, and no matter what happens you'll just go back to behind the scenes and say to the director "whoa, that was one hell of a scene". thinking of life in such a feather-light manner gives me a certein sense of freedom to do as i say, be a protagonist.

[silan]

i can't say anything about divine intervantion. and by the way i didn't mean it like that. what i meant was, what if wer'e all just acting in our movies? like nothing is serious, and no matter what happens you'll just go back to behind the scenes and say to the director "whoa, that was one hell of a scene". thinking of life in such a feather-light manner gives me a certein sense of freedom to do as i say, be a protagonist.
I don't know. That would feel like a very detached way to live, if you think about it. No matter what happens to you, you'd feel like an actor playing a role, so you'd always be separated emotionally from your actions and the consequences of your actions, if you went through life thinking that.

But... I guess whatever works for you.

[punkusa20_2001]

the problem with that is that its a cop out and when your put in a situation of pressure you'll fold. and its spelled deja vu

[silan]

the problem with that is that its a cop out and when your put in a situation of pressure you'll fold.
Good point.

Imagining yourself as an actor going through your life is kind of just another form of escapism and a way to separate yourself from reality.

and its spelled deja vu
Yes. I think we've established that it's spelled:

déjà vu

Moving on...

[Starwind Amada]

What? I was the first one who said it.

[silan]

What? I was the first one who said it.
Wrong. Tremolo was the first who said it. Also, I wasn't talking to you or quoting you at all. I'm curious why you thought I was.

Anyway, my point was that we don't need half of the people who respond to this thread to correct the spelling of deja vu. Unfortunately, that's exactly what we had.

I was pointing it out in big letters so that no one else who reads this thread will feel compelled to spell it correctly.

[PoX]

the only characters that i have known in the anime world that are not carbon copies of others are those of exel saga. i could be wrong.

the topic of living your own movies would be escapism but it is arguable that it is healthy for you. i mean if you live a life of school work, you need something to entertain your self. wander to far from the path of reality and you might fall over the edge.

[animanic_critic]

kobi666's quotes sound a little worrisome, but nevertheless there's no need to worry about altogether. Escapism is fine, but like medicines, don't over-do it. Escapism is also like a drug and can backfire itself. The problem is, escapism is made dangerous if the person thinks that life sucks for him/her.

I also see watching anime as a healthy form of escapism, but I won't use it replace my daily life itself, because that's just sad. Watching anime is eventually just a form of leisure that we all have in order to enjoy aspects of life. I only worry the bona fide otakus are always on the brink of stepping over the line between healthy escapism and not accepting reality itself.

PoX: Umm, I don't see how all other characters are carbon copies of Excel Saga - not one bit. Care to explain why you say so?

[PoX]

kobi666's quotes sound a little worrisome, but nevertheless there's no need to worry about altogether. Escapism is fine, but like medicines, don't over-do it. Escapism is also like a drug and can backfire itself. The problem is, escapism is made dangerous if the person thinks that life sucks for him/her.

I also see watching anime as a healthy form of escapism, but I won't use it replace my daily life itself, because that's just sad. Watching anime is eventually just a form of leisure that we all have in order to enjoy aspects of life. I only worry the bona fide otakus are always on the brink of stepping over the line between healthy escapism and not accepting reality itself.

PoX: Umm, I don't see how all other characters are carbon copies of Excel Saga - not one bit. Care to explain why you say so?

lol i meant excel saga characters are quite original. they are not carbon copies of the anime i have seen

[kobi666]

wow, you guys really think throughly. i'm very impressed to know that deep minded people still live and speak their mind (i come from israel, everybody here are all "hey if your not talking straight forward, down to earth, and no freakin metaphors, just shut up..."
the thing is not to think your life IS a scene from a movie written from above.
my point was a little different (but maybe my english isn't as good as i think it is so you probably missed me by a KM or two...)
life itself is not a play, or a movie or even a book.
it's reality (let's not disscus what reality is and where is the dream, too much philosophy, head starting to hurt from thinking about it...)
and if you see your life is real the escapisem is not really neccesery.
i accept everything as real(exact meaning of everything is not real but that disscusable..) therefor however i take my life as, a movie or a continuing novel or whatever, is just a tool to figure out who i am and what i want.
who is the hero that i want to be, and who are the villins in my life and how can i make the plot so interesting, so that i can recall it in the future with a feeling of "wow, that was really good, and i wrote it"
it's kinda fun for a growing teenager!

[punkusa20_2001]

No matter how many characters you view from any media form, youll find a likeness of another, but good writing means that a character is dynamic and in full 3d which means there are many more angles and ways to analyze them. If you see knives and vicous as the same character then truly i can say that you haven't fully analyzed their ambitions, their motives for doing what they do. Which truly makes people who they are.

[kobi666]

that's very true (btw nice avatar punkusa!)
2 things,
it was knives and harry mc'dowel from gungrave
the other thing is this, have you ever met anyone that was extremly alike to someone else? i bet you did and even if you didn't you can see farmilier charactaristics everyone. i know knives and harry are very different in lots of terms but the bold characters in them were very alike. i can say only this
1 is all, all is one, assuming 1 is one. everyone is uniqe, uniqe is everyone assuming we are what we think we are. dont you say?

[animanic_critic]

and if you see your life is real the escapisem is not really neccesery.
For the record, escapism is not only for people who can grasp reality in life. It's just another way of seeing life itself, in other words, see your own life from the outside. Escapism is quite healthy because it explores on what life can or could have been if viewed from another perspective. Just don't go over the top because otherwise, it'll be no different than taking hallucinative or depressant drugs (or whatever other types of drugs there are out there).
i accept everything as real(exact meaning of everything is not real but that disscusable..) therefor however i take my life as, a movie or a continuing novel or whatever, is just a tool to figure out who i am and what i want.
who is the hero that i want to be, and who are the villins in my life and how can i make the plot so interesting, so that i can recall it in the future with a feeling of "wow, that was really good, and i wrote it"
it's kinda fun for a growing teenager!
Well, I guess there's nothing wrong thinking like this since it does make life seem more entertaining. Personally, I don't like the idea of my life being premeditated by Mr. Fate Himself, and everything that happens or have happened is because I made it that way or just due to external circumstances. Life's a journey, not a destination as Aerosmith's Steven Tyler once said and I couldn't agree more. If you know how your life's gonna end up, then there's no more reason for continuing life itself... which I find depressing.

[kobi666]

from where i am right now i can't see anything wrong with life.
it's tough only because you were happy before that, or maybe being happy is only a shield becase life is tough. btw after looking at the thread i posted earlier about EVA and the answers, i think i got them all (or at least what i think the answears are...) and i owe it you guys! thanks a lot!

[aoi_n_asul]

from where i am right now i can't see anything wrong with life.
it's tough only because you were happy before that, or maybe being happy is only a shield becase life is tough.

lucky you, for being happy ^^ but for some, there will always be something wrong with life, and it may not be because they were happy once, but because they were never happy in the first place. i guess, happiness is still a choice. happiness, for some, is the only tool for survival.

[Mana]

As interesting as this thread has gotten (o_O) someone put it back on track, please? No need to have 2 comeplete seperate thoughts in the same thread.

As far as the anime characters go; yeah, it's a thing called archetypes. There are only so many general character types you can make, and even a lot of original characters are simply the molding together of 2 or more base characters. What makes characters good or bad is not how original they are, but how the writer let's us perceive them, what situations they find themselves in, how they change over time.

And I'm not even going to try getting into the second part...