You are too old.

[aeroshadow]

I hate age restrictions.

I'm not talking about the type of age restriction that prevents younger children from engaging in activities that are clearly for adults. For the most part, those are fine.

I'm talking about the invisible age restrictions society places on adults, trying to prevent them from engaging in activities that society deems to be clearly for children, teenagers, college students, whatever.

Why do some people find it "sad" seeing a forty year old man at a video game tournament, cosplaying, and playing Magic cards? What is so sad about that? Why should age prevent someone from having fun the way he likes to have it without getting strange looks?

I know not everyone feels this way, but seriously, to the people who do... they can go to hell. -_-

[Moe]

i strongly believe in what you believe but there is a limit and that limit is seein a 40 year old man riding one of these things...

http://www.burchardgalleries.com/auctions/2003/jun2203/tl069.jpg

[Ritalin]

Hahaha. "Go to hell for thinking it's sad and disagreeing with me!"

If you're 40 and cosplaying it comes off as sad because it reflects them possibly not having a life. When you're 40, you shouldn't have enough extra time to do that crap (middle age--work, kids, life, typical stuff for 40 year olds, unless you're in a midlife crisis).

That's just for cosplaying though, I'll be playing games forever.

[Ojisan]

Who says I shun 40 year olds for cosplaying? I shun everyone for cosplaying.

There's a point in life where meaningless, fantasy diversions not only lose their appeal, but are overshadowed by more significant affairs. Said forty year olds who never reach this point probably never reached many points in life. Thus, with some exceptions, such as gamers, they are sad.

[Moe]

when i used to play pokemon cards at the WOC(wizards of the coast store)(*everyone gasps*) there was a 50 year old guy and 35 year old woman who played as well with us and there were a few reasaons why... one was they enjoyed being around children(50 year olds children grew up and moved out)(35 year old's children live with her husband in a different state and she only sees them on weekends) so they came played pokemon but also taught things about life and so forth... i enjoyed them being around... but eventally WOC closed down b/c they joined a different company and that company decided they didnt want the store to stay open... well what i'm trying to say is... its ok if they wanna do stuff b/c there maybe many reasons why theu are doing... not that they have extra time maybe they wanna feel younger or something of the sense... and playing games, cards, hanging with youngers ppl, cosplaying, watching anime, etc is a way for them to do that. and i say thats just fine.

[The Geomancer]

I'll agree with that, with one exception...Cosplay

there is a certain age when it is just plain wrong (case in point, man-faye *shudders)

[Linuts]

People in their middle-age crisis can do a lot of crazy things... I guess still being able to hold on to an interest is perfectly fine. Just do it in moderation really... Anime characters are usually not over the age of 40. I don't need some old hag dressing up as little Sakura to show me how she'll shrivel up at that age...

Moderation... Please...

But when you think about it... Society as a whole is getting older much later nowadays. Compared to 20 years ago, it's taking longer for a lot of people to move out of the home (Myself included, unfortunately. Damn you price boom!). Plenty of people in their 40s are still yet to marry. People, overall, are living much longer. Male/Female in their 20s are marrying people 2X/3X their age. The invisible age brackets we used back in the day may no longer apply now (80 is the new 40 according to Hugh Hafner... Ha!). Society's view on age is changing... For better or worse? I don't know...

If anything, when I'm fourty, I'd like to be working in a decently paid job that I like and have a happy family... By that age, cosplaying would be the last of my interests (not that I'll every cosplay at all anyway). Although I may still like anime even then :p.

[f1rst children]

I'm gonna stick up for the cosplayers here -

There's an unfair double standard in assuming that an adult who cosplays is some sort of sad freak who obsesses over anime 24/7.

When I go to a baseball game and see a 40 year old guy with a Dodger jersey and Dodger hat, I don't automatically assume that he's some sort of baseball-obsessed freak who has millions of bubblegum cards individually stored and categorized in his attic while paying thousands of dollars to go to baseball fantasy camp, and spends all his free time memorizing batting averages and on base percentages and reading old box scores.

Yet said baseball fan is doing the same thing the cosplayer is - dressing up like a character from his chosen entertainment medium. Why is one "sad" and the other perfectly normal? Is it sadder and more abnormal to like anime or games more than baseball?

Yes there are disturbing cosplaying extremes, like Man-Faye or people who wear too-revealing clothes. But is Man-Faye any more gross than Fat-Drunk-Bodypaint-Guy at a football game? And people wear inappropriately over-revealing clothes everywhere - it's no grosser at some convention center than it is at the beach.


As for Pokemon and Magic, they're card games. There's nothing inherently childish about playing cards. In fact, several people have become rich and famous by playing card games, people like TJ Cloutier and Phil Hellmuth. Millions of supposedly mature adults drive to the middle of the Mojave Desert every year to play card games.

I guess the difference between mature card games and kids card games is only how much of the rent you lose and how much you drink while doing it.


And video games - go to Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada and find an Airman who operates a Predator drone aircraft by sitting in front of a monitor and wiggling a joystick around. Ask him if he feels childish for sitting around all day playing a video game.

[Ritalin]

Er, a mascot is very different than dressing up as a video game or anime character. It's a full body costume, for the main point. That's a respectable job (everybody loves you!), and you need to be able to act, and be atheletic for stunts, etc.

Cosplaying does nothing but make you look silly.

[Mana]

Er, a mascot is very different than dressing up as a video game or anime character. It's a full body costume, for the main point. That's a respectable job (everybody loves you!), and you need to be able to act, and be atheletic for stunts, etc.

Cosplaying does nothing but make you look silly.

I don't think he meant mascots >_>; I think he meant fans who dress up when they attend the games.

[f1rst children]

Mana's right - I was talking about fans.

Why is it lamer to dress up like an anime or game character than to dress up like Barry Bonds or Kobe Bryant?

"I don't wear jerseys - I'm thirty plus"
- Jay-Z

[Ninja Realist]

I think it's best to do what you want and not really care what others think. As long as your not hurting anyone else, whose business is it but your own?

I personally find cosplay to be terribly stupid regardless of age, but hey, that's just me. Phsycological implications aside, dressing up like an animated character from a show is just a really stupid waste of time. If I wanted to look at that character, which unless I'm watching the show I probably don't, I'd look at an actual picture of them.

I think Cosplaying is in many ways like taking a shit in that the only person enjoying it is the person doing it. The rest of us are covering our eyes and our noses and trying to get the hell away from you.

But like I said. If you love to cosplay, what I said shouldn't bother you. Because who the hell am I anyways?

EDIT

Oh and in response to f1rst children, wearing a Jersey and a Hat is not dressing up in a costume, hell the implications of it are just completely different. Wearing a Jersey is simply a way to express your support and respect of both a specific team and a specific player. When Scott Rolen sees a crowd of people wearing his Jersey, don't you think that makes him happy? Don't you think that lets him know that his fans really support him, that they are really rooting for him to hit that homer?

You can't really equate wearing a hat and a jersey to cosplaying, because the meaning behind these two gestures is entirely different.

It's pretty abhorrent, too, to try and equate operating a predator drone with playing a video game. WAR IS NOT A VIDEO GAME. The difference between someone operating a Drone and someone playing a Flight Simulator is both massive and simple, people's lives aren't on the line when you're playing a video game. I don't even think that point can be argued anymore, because as soon as something starts affecting whether people live or die, there is no way to call it a video game.

[PsychoSaiya-jin]

Age does not apply always. A sad lonely person will be sad regardless. Similarly the opposite is true for cool people.
80-year old Riku ftw! hehe

[kLaUS]

well, it is strange to be doing those stuff at that age, really, think about it... those are your hobbies now, personally i would love to be watching anime and playing video games all my life, but if i dont find any other hobbies or other more mature interests when i grow up, that is just sad... i think that is what society sees, a man that never really grew up...

[Zero]

Ageism in the context of Cosplay? Alright, I'll bite.

Societal expectations of what is "childish," and the similar chastisement for not "growing up" has always seemed rather silly to me. While the military drone example isn't quite the best, f1rst children's point remains valid in the double standard being held; What about those crazed sports fans you're bound to see at every game? Fat, shirtless, painted stomach/face, wasted like there's no tomorrow...What makes this fella any less strange than the cosplayer or card game player? They've both found a hobby of sorts that have given them joy, with the former usually making quite an ass of himself to the fans surrounding his seat. Or even more relevant to cosplay in particular, the United States already has its own nationally-endorsed day for such activity: Halloween. And having seen more than enough grown men and women hold a themed holiday party, it isn't limited to the more innocent minded.

And ah, the double standards I see on this thread alone. Anyone staring at the boob tube with a controller in one hand and strategy guide in the other is, of course, an exception. And if that mascot is being paid for frolicking in an animal costume with an oversized head, hey, who are we to judge if they're getting greenbacks for their little daily escapades? :rolleyes2

Really, this is the basic lesson of any sociology 101 class; deviance is ultimately socially constructed. Expectations of what is mature or "grown up" are of the same source.

Granted, all of us hold some sort of limit for ourselves. As humorously demonstrated by Moe, I'll raise an eyebrow and chuckle the day I see a 40 year old ride one of those. However, I withhold judgement and shrug it off, saving it for something more earning of criticism and even perhaps productive in engaging with.

[alien222]

It really depends if you are mature enough...

[etane]

16 yo old girls should be off limits to adults? Ageism!

[Ninja Realist]

And ah, the double standards I see on this thread alone. Anyone staring at the boob tube with a controller in one hand and strategy guide in the other is, of course, an exception. And if that mascot is being paid for frolicking in an animal costume with an oversized head, hey, who are we to judge if they're getting greenbacks for their little daily escapades? :rolleyes2

How is there a double standard here?

It IS different if you are being paid. People do what they have to, to get by and sometimes that means doing things which really suck, like being a mascot.

But all that aside, is it wrong to say that you won't harass someone for doing something, but that you personally find it to be incredibly stupid? I mean I'm not going to look down on someone for watching NASCAR, but I still find it to be unwatchably dull. And I'm not going to say it's wrong for a 40-Year Old to Cosplay, but in my opinion, cosplaying, when done by any age group, is extremely stupid.

Because strip away all the psychological implications, strip away all of the societal antagonism, and there is still something fundamentally wrong with cosplay.

Anime and Video Game Characters just look plain stupid when you translate them to real life. The hair, the clothes, the face, all of it was designed for a Two Dimensional Medium, and it just looka totally stupid in a Three Dimensional One. For that reason, besides hating cosplay, I have trouble watching any Live Action Adaptations of Anime and Movies.

All the rationalization in the world can't get rid of the simple aesthetic problems with Cosplay.

[JaQuais J.]

Ummm, it IS sad if you see a 40 year old cosplaying...think about it.

[Phate]

Because strip away all the psychological implications, strip away all of the societal antagonism, and there is still something fundamentally wrong with cosplay.
Wait what? What psychological implications? Are you saying that someone dressing up as an anime or videogame character implies that they're in some way a deeply disturbed person? I don't see how it's any different from dressing up for Halloween or a costume party. It's just another way for someone to have fun. Sure, there are some people that can get too into it, but hinting that this is a problem with everyone who cosplays is pretty stupid.

Or... are you just using big words to try and sound smart? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/Ph4t3/Emot/emot-haw.gif

A 40 year old cosplaying is going to be drawing a raised eyebrow or two from me, but aside from that I don't care.

[Ninja Realist]

Wait what? What psychological implications? Are you saying that someone dressing up as an anime or videogame character implies that they're in some way a deeply disturbed person? I don't see how it's any different from dressing up for Halloween or a costume party. It's just another way for someone to have fun. Sure, there are some people that can get too into it, but hinting that this is a problem with everyone who cosplays is pretty stupid.

Or... are you just using big words to try and sound smart? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/Ph4t3/Emot/emot-haw.gif

A 40 year old cosplaying is going to be drawing a raised eyebrow or two from me, but aside from that I don't care.

I'm not trying to say that cosplaying does suggest some kind of psychological problem, but that is one of the more popular arguments used by people who don't like cosplay. So I'm discounting that argument as my rationale for disliking cosplay.

[f1rst children]

Oh and in response to f1rst children, wearing a Jersey and a Hat is not dressing up in a costume, hell the implications of it are just completely different. Wearing a Jersey is simply a way to express your support and respect of both a specific team and a specific player. When Scott Rolen sees a crowd of people wearing his Jersey, don't you think that makes him happy? Don't you think that lets him know that his fans really support him, that they are really rooting for him to hit that homer?

You can't really equate wearing a hat and a jersey to cosplaying, because the meaning behind these two gestures is entirely different.

Why is it different? Aren't cosplayers also expressing support and respect of a specific entertainer, ableit a fictional one?

Cosplayers dress like their favorite character for the same reason fans wear jerseys of their favorite player - so they can feel some sort of association with that character/player.

Personally I think cosplaying looks stupid, too, whether it's for anime or Star Wars or whatever. But the Raider fan with a silver-n-black mohawk, face and body paint, and giant spikes coming out of his shoulders like he's the third Road Warrior? I think he looks just as stupid as any cosplayer.

It's pretty abhorrent, too, to try and equate operating a predator drone with playing a video game. WAR IS NOT A VIDEO GAME. The difference between someone operating a Drone and someone playing a Flight Simulator is both massive and simple, people's lives aren't on the line when you're playing a video game. I don't even think that point can be argued anymore, because as soon as something starts affecting whether people live or die, there is no way to call it a video game.

A video game is just a game that exists in an electronic medium. The fact that it, like other games, may have serious and even lethal consequences makes them no less of a game. A game is just a contest with rules - there is nothing inherently frivolous about the concept of a game that prevents is from being associated with life and death decisions.

For example, Russian Roulette is a game - a contest with rules. It has lethal consequences.

Secondly, the US military uses games all the time. The constantly conduct war games excercises, in which they try out new equipment and strategies. A modified version of the game America's Army is used to train soldiers in teamwork, adaptive thinking and communication skills. The game Close Combat: First to Fight is used by the US Marines to develop and study new platoon-level tactics. All these games could have life or death consequences when the soldiers trained on them go into battle.

[Ninja Realist]

Why is it different? Aren't cosplayers also expressing support and respect of a specific entertainer, ableit a fictional one?

Cosplayers dress like their favorite character for the same reason fans wear jerseys of their favorite player - so they can feel some sort of association with that character/player.

Personally I think cosplaying looks stupid, too, whether it's for anime or Star Wars or whatever. But the Raider fan with a silver-n-black mohawk, face and body paint, and giant spikes coming out of his shoulders like he's the third Road Warrior? I think he looks just as stupid as any cosplayer.

Don't worry I think he's stupid too. He's taking it way too far and is, in the process, just making an ass out of himself. But I think the fan who takes off hist shirt and puts on body paint, compared to the fan who wears a Jersey, is analagous to the issue of cosplay. If someone were just wearing Hellsing T-Shirt, I wouldn't find that particularly stupid. But when someone takes it to the extreme of dressing up as Alucard, then yeah, that looks pretty stupid.



A video game is just a game that exists in an electronic medium. The fact that it, like other games, may have serious and even lethal consequences makes them no less of a game. A game is just a contest with rules - there is nothing inherently frivolous about the concept of a game that prevents is from being associated with life and death decisions.

For example, Russian Roulette is a game - a contest with rules. It has lethal consequences.

Secondly, the US military uses games all the time. The constantly conduct war games excercises, in which they try out new equipment and strategies. A modified version of the game America's Army is used to train soldiers in teamwork, adaptive thinking and communication skills. The game Close Combat: First to Fight is used by the US Marines to develop and study new platoon-level tactics. All these games could have life or death consequences when the soldiers trained on them go into battle.

You said it yourself, a game is a contest with rules, and that autmoatically excludes war from the realm of games. War has no rules.

[aeroshadow]

I think equating video games with war may be a little over the top. Still, there isn't too much of a reason that forty year olds should get weird looks for playing them except for the fact that society thinks video games in general are childish.

For instance, playing SSBM or Magic cards competitively have many similarities as playing chess competitively. You practice, you research, you essentially bet some cash by entering a tournament, and you meet plenty of people along the way. Yet, just because society has defined chess as something much more mature than any other competitive video game, a forty year old will get weird looks when he attends the SSBM tournament, and probably won't get any when he enters a chess one.

Parents often ridicule me when I say that I'm going down to a SSBM or Magic tournament to play for twelve hours. Yet, if I said I was going to play chess for twelve hours, they would probably be impressed. Where's the logic?

Don't say chess is deeper, superior, more thought-oreinted or some trash like that. Perhaps chess has acquired slightly more depth because it has been around for like ever and millions of people have played it, and discovered more stuff concerning it. Fine. But in the end, it's just society's perception of chess that makes it somehow "superior" to SSBM or Magic in the eyes of a random mother.

Well, whatever. This is the way the world works, so I don't think I should be complaining so much. I will surely rejoice when I see coverage of a Halo tournament for the first time on ESPN, however.

[Mira]

Hmmm. Well, since I'm probably too old to be in this forum, or on IRC or in various online games and at conventions...etc PERHAPS my opinion is a bit biased. But I'll share it anyhoo...

For me, my participation in life is not barred by someone else's idea of what is "age appropriate". My behavior is generally governed by morality, personal integrity, responsibility (yes I have kids, a job, a mortgage, etc.) and PERSONAL TASTES. I think our society is entirely too conformist and it's sad to see so many young people in this thread embracing it. I would never venture to say that I will not do "X" when I am "X" years old-unless it involved hurting someone else or comitting a crime. Yet plenty of folks in here have made statements about what they would or wouldn't do at age 40. Worse yet, they even make dire judgements about what it would mean for them if they do. What is it that says we have to reject what is "childish"? Is it because it's not productive and as good little puritans (which is where a lot of our values as a society stem from) we have to reject it? I would put that it's imperitive to cultivate "non productive" time in our lives. It is part of being a fully functioning and mentally healthy and happy human being. And just how you use your "non productive" time is a matter of taste-not morality, responsibility or WORTH AS A HUMAN- of course, as long as it is neither harmful others or neglectful of your responsibilities.

What I find disturbing is the idea that at 40 someone "shouldn't" have time for such "childish" things. I would counter that at any age, being a work-a-holic with no time for fun is profoundly unhealthy. Indeed, it's at the heart of what is wrong with many families and our society at large. As adults reject what they see as childish, they turn to more "adult" like ways to unwind-drinking, consumerism, adultery and prozac (just to name a few). If you decide that rejecting fun is part and parcel to what being an "adult" is-you will pay a price somewhere. That's much sadder than the senior software developer I know that loves to cosplay as various Robotech officers at every Sakura-Con (who does happen to be over 40). His wife helps make the costumes. Their kids join in and do their own cosplay. They are smart, responsible, and FUN people that make time in their life for a little childlike fun. They are enjoying their life.

I think they are far less sad than the couple I know that spend their free time perfecting their landscaping and fretting about their careers. Meanwhile their kids rot in daycare 12 hours a day, their wine cellar is in constant rotation (if you know what I mean) and they are the most BORING people to have dinner with I've ever met. I mean, they have no inner life beyond routine and fitting in with their neighbors. Yet if shown a pic of them and their cosplaying counterparts-I bet the average person would call them the more "adult-like".

Being an adult is about more than superficials or hobbies. Indeed, I'd put that it doesnt' have much to do with them at all. Being an adult is about your level of maturity and your ability to apply it when and where it counts-indeed it might also be represented in understanding that cosplaying at 40 doesn't have anything to do with it. Adults don't have to worry about pleasing the Jones' as long as they are pleasing themselves and fulfilling their responsibilities.

mira

[Tori]

I agree with Alien222 that if the person is mature enough be able to do what ever they want.