stupid false things we teach our children

[Tails86]

I was having a discussion earlier with Itachi_Uchiha about the things we learned about as a child that later we found out were false. One example he started with was about Paul Revere never really made it to the village to tell the people the british were comming, although we teach our children that he did. One thing that I brought up is that in elementary school I was tought that oxidized blood is red while non-oxidized blood is blue. Once I reached my Freshman year of high school my biology teacher stumped the whole class when he asked what color blood is. Everyone thought it was blue and red. Why would we teach our children this!?

[Mitsukai]

Shhhhh! :bnono:

Big Brother might watching.

[General Suburbia]

As for the blood thing, I'm sure no one intended to misguide people into thinking blood was whatever color you thought it was. That was probably just some idiot waving around false authority and convincing others to believe what he/she believed.

The main reason we teach kids "wrong" things is because it's easier. Why did we make up the story with the stork? Because telling kids the truth would raise up so many more questions and maybe "destroy their innocence." I remember teachers teaching me how to write an essay. No one knew that the five-paragraph essay was a horrible format to use until 3 years later when our grades would most likely suffer from it. Why would teachers teach us this method? It's a heck of a lot easier than teaching otherwise.

[Ninja Realist]

I don't think I was ever taught that unoxygenated blood was blue. I was taught that the veins that carry unoxygenated blood are blue and that the blood itself is a darker shade of purple. This was in 3rd Grade.

But to answer your question? Because America has a shitty, shitty, public school system.

[LadySage]

I actually plan on being a grade school teacher myself, and I have sworn NEVER to teach the kids the bullcrap they call "history." I mean, history is important, but I'm not going to pretend that Columbus discovered America, or we went to war directly to stop Hitler, or any of the nonfacts most everyone was taught as a young child.

[GWS923]

I actually plan on being a grade school teacher myself, and I have sworn NEVER to teach the kids the bullcrap they call "history." I mean, history is important, but I'm not going to pretend that Columbus discovered America, or we went to war directly to stop Hitler, or any of the nonfacts most everyone was taught as a young child.

As far as Columbus is concerned, I remember from our first discussion in 1st grade about how Columbus didn't really discover America, and that vikings had been before, and it's possible people from Africa had been even before that.

Although I was upset in Chemistry class upon discovering 3 dimensional electron fields. Rings were so much easier.

[Ninja Realist]

As far as Columbus is concerned, I remember from our first discussion in 1st grade about how Columbus didn't really discover America, and that vikings had been before, and it's possible people from Africa had been even before that.

No, the people who discovered America were the hunter-gatherers who walked across the land bridge 10,000 years ago.

[GWS923]

No, the people who discovered America were the hunter-gatherers who walked across the land bridge 10,000 years ago.

wah wah wah, I'm Ninja Realist, and I have to correct people on everything they say.

I meant the discovering by the non-natives, and everyone here understood what I meant, so quit patronizing.

[Roark]

I actually plan on being a grade school teacher myself, and I have sworn NEVER to teach the kids the bullcrap they call "history." I mean, history is important, but I'm not going to pretend that Columbus discovered America, or we went to war directly to stop Hitler, or any of the nonfacts most everyone was taught as a young child.
I hate the whole "Columbus didn't discover America" thing. Was he the first explorer to visit? No, not really. Was he the first person to return with that knowledge and make it well known to a vast majority of people? Yes, pretty much. Discovery in a vacuum is pointless. Being the first to obtain knowledge doesn't mean much if it dies with you. Columbus' feat wasn't being the first to set foot into a completely virgin realm, it was being the first to set foot there, come back, make accurate maps, and dissemate that knowledge.

Downplaying great accomplisments in the service of political correctness upsets Roark.

As for stupid false things we teach kids...

I could be mean and point out that most children are baptized as infants...

Although I was upset in Chemistry class upon discovering 3 dimensional electron fields. Rings were so much easier.

This wasn't a lie. For simple operations, electrons behave in ring-like patterns. It's the same as being taught Newtonian physics, then adding calculus, then eventually learning that's all wrong and studying general relativity. None of them is quite a lie, but is close enough to the truth for that level of comprehension. Honestly, do you want linear algebra, differential equations, and assorted fun bits of grad-level physics being taught in high school when there's a lot better things to spend time on?

[etane]

I had always sucked at calculus in highschool, so I was the least happiest when I had to learn 3 dimensional electron field trajectory/velocity crap.

And, how do you revamp an education system to teach useful facts filled with truthiness? I wish I can take a handful of my favorite professors and make them education czars. But, that somehow seems defeating my original purpose of education which is to develop strong logic and creativity...and lead everyone to think exactly like I do... leading us to a fascist state... it's hard.. it's hard... to be in charge of education...

[shizukuchan]

Most of the non-truths taught to kids (and adults) are taught through implication, or through some other "sins of omission". It's not like most schools or parents are trying to lie to kids on purpose.

All the history books I saw up through high school told of how Columbus and others like the Conquistadors lived during the "Age of Exploration" or "Age of Discovery". But a couple of years ago, I was surprised to find out about a textbook which called it the "Age of Conquest" and changed the story accordingly. I think it would be interesting to ask high school students in various places to see what version of the story their books tell.

Another false assumption that we learn at a young age is that pigs are dirty, savage beasts. If you call anyone a pig, you're basically saying they're a filthy brute. But pigs are actually very good-natured and among the most intelligent animals - as smart and as sensitive as dogs. And pigs do not enjoy wallowing in their own excrement as they are forced to do, especially on modern factory farms. If given a choice, they prefer to rest in clean places.

"Chicken" can also be a misnomer. Any animal is going to be afraid when they feel threatened, so a chicken can't be expected to be any different. Chickens have also been known to be brave, risking their lives to defend their chicks against predators.

In elementary school, I read a general fact book (Charlie Brown's Book of Questions and Answers) which said that fishing isn't cruel, because fish don't have nerves in their mouths, so they don't feel any pain. I actually believed what the book said at the time, as if a hook in a fish's mouth or throat were perfectly natural and wouldn't cause the fish any distress.

"Meat" is another word with a false implication. We sometimes ask, "Where's the beef? Where's the meat?", because we think of meat as "real" food, and the substantial part of any matter or situation. But meat is the least substantial part of any balanced meal. Actually, people can be perfectly healthy without eating meat at all. If you try telling people that you want to pass on the meat at a meal, it's usually not surprising if some of them pity you for not getting enough nourishment or "meat" on your bones. They've been taught that meat is necessary (and the most important) for health, while the opposite is true.

And it's funny how a lot of us who know in theory that grains, fruits and veggies are the real "meat" of a meal still feel inside as if meat were the most important (and form eating habits according to that feeling).

The USDA food pyramid also has problems: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=851835
The pyramid has been revised (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4606079&sourceCode=gaw) recently, but I still think it's not entirely healthy or trustworthy, so long as currently unhealthy consumer habits plus the interests of the agriculture industry have an influence on the USDA. There's an ongoing conflict of "facts" between what our acquired habits and beliefs tell us we should eat, what food companies want us to eat, and what's really good for us.

[Zushio]

My favorite lie they teach children is in Math class, at least up here in Candada. All though school they teach you that something is the best way to do a specific mathematical function, but each year they tell you the disregard the previous year's instruction and use a whole new (usually easier) method.

[Zero]

I would argue that some of these points we teach to children serve rather well as a tool for reference to be modified at a later date, so as to avoid inundating them with humanity's massive knowledge base. This would be particularly applicable to the natural sciences and mathematics, which work on a basis of progression. Justification of certain historical details would be dependent on the context, but again, requires reference points for the layman to begin to understand what is before him/herself.

[PsychoSaiya-jin]

My favorate lie that children pick up is that eating crusts will give you curly hair.
Manufacturers now going as far as developing crustless bread because of this madness!! :P

[Ritalin]

I actually plan on being a grade school teacher myself, and I have sworn NEVER to teach the kids the bullcrap they call "history." I mean, history is important, but I'm not going to pretend that Columbus discovered America, or we went to war directly to stop Hitler, or any of the nonfacts most everyone was taught as a young child.

:XD:... That's funny, because History is exactly the thing I am aiming for to teach (along with government), except not in grade school and instead high school. And besides... they teach vikings reached the America's long before Columbus, but they didn't do anything with it. So Columbus gets the credit for bringing Europeans over anyway.

As for stupid false things taught to kids since the 3rd grade: Writing cursive will be done from now in school and college and work until you DIE!! When I got to freshmen year, teachers completely disallowed cursive writing on papers and discouraged it for anything else. In college, they wouldn't even glance at it if it was cursive.

The only thing I use cursive for is my signature. In fact, I completely forgot how to write in it naturally outside of that.

[Ninja Realist]

wah wah wah, I'm Ninja Realist, and I have to correct people on everything they say.

I meant the discovering by the non-natives, and everyone here understood what I meant, so quit patronizing.

Well excuse me if I find completely Eurocentric world views to be completely disgusting, and more than a little bit racist.

[Neo-Hunter]

well I have to defend Realist for his comments, and that I agree with what he said. and another relatied topic why we teach false things to children is that their brains at a certian age can not comprehend alot of information so that when they are more devloped such as highschool and college. the Full information comes out at that point in time. I mean I really don't see a 6th grade teacher explaining Nucler Phyiscs to her class or anything like that. that is the reason we tell some false things

[Neo-Hunter]

wait, what? I can't understand you. all I understood was native americans and Something about the american revolution.

[loner]

It is a fact that Columbus discovered the Americas for Europeans. Like Roark said, nobody in the 15th century knows who Eric the Red is, and have no knowledge of the voyage of the Vikings. Even though they were the first Europeans to arrive at the Americas, they were not conscious of this "discovery", and didn't bring that knowledge back. Therefore, not much attention should be paid to them in history classes, since they did not bring two continents whose histories have been developing in completely seperate paths together, nor did it have the enormous impact that Columbus' encounter with the Tainos had.

If I had my way though, I would have schools teach more about the opening of the Silk Road by Zhang Qian, or Zheng He's seven voyages, or the travels of Ibn Battuta in world history classes. IMO, these are also key events that brought the world closer together.

[RuKiAsShAdOw]

This wasn't a lie. For simple operations, electrons behave in ring-like patterns.

...no they dont. If you want to get technical, there are no electron "rings", but there are electron "clouds" and they orbit the nucleus of an atom in "orbitals." the only thing close to a "ring like pattern" would be the "s" orbital in which the electron orbits the nucleus within a certain spherical area.

Children who realize this lie are filled with hate towards the lier and that hate never truely goes away. It removes false hope after the lie is realized, and causes the person to act differntly. Why would't a person be spitfull toward another when their is nothing to lose?

Sounds like someone has some unresolved childhood issues?

[soundchazer]

Well... The U.S. has one of the most distorted accounts of history.

a) David Crockett did not die defending the Alamo, he was executed afterwards.

b) People were not ambushed at the Alamo, they were offered to either leave it or die in it, and most women and children had left it.

c) There are not two continents, but one called America. The whole North America, South America crap was created by the U.S. so they could use the name Americans for themselves. Guess what? Mexicans, Argentineans, Brazilians, are also Americans because we live in the same continent.

d) Japan offered to surrender before the bombs were dropped in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but the Americans refused because they wanted to test their new arsenal.

e) There were more people death because of witch hunts in the U.S. than people killed by the inquisition (this I got from a BBC show, were a PROTESTANT researcher studied all the available documentation from the inquisition).

I could go on...

[Saya-biki]

well nothing I learned in school young isnt mentioned here :XD:

but when I was little, watching childrens show that failed to realize that the perspective altered left and right.
So <- Right Left->

that messed me up...I still have some left and right issues...

one time my mom said something about the day being 4 hours long, I believe she was talking about the school day or something, regardless, I thought the day was 4 hours long for awhile...

this wasn't taught to me, but when I was little I used to like to watch Godzilla movies. All the Asian people screamning in running with the poor dubs...combined with a small comic that came with a Godzilla toy...made me think Ohio was in Japan...

I just learned this year that deoxygenated blood wasn't blue...

oh...when they did lessons on Dinosaurs, they weren't exactly the most correct-then again I'm not sure how thats changed considering I only learned about dinosaurs very briefly in the 1st grade. I had to learn the rest myself...

[RuKiAsShAdOw]

c) There are not two continents, but one called America. The whole North America, South America crap was created by the U.S. so they could use the name Americans for themselves. Guess what? Mexicans, Argentineans, Brazilians, are also Americans because we live in the same continent.

uh, no, there's TWO continents, North America and South America. Though you arer right about Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, Colombia, etc. being in the same American REGION and being Americans becasue of this, there are still 2 American CONTINENTS although there is one American REGION.
If you learned anything about Pangea you'd know this.

d) Japan offered to surrender before the bombs were dropped in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but the Americans refused because they wanted to test their new arsenal.

Show me some proof of this. If this is true I would like to see some proof, like an official document declaring surrender.

[Ninja Realist]

Well... The U.S. has one of the most distorted accounts of history.

a) David Crockett did not die defending the Alamo, he was executed afterwards.

b) People were not ambushed at the Alamo, they were offered to either leave it or die in it, and most women and children had left it.

Disney's most recent rendition of The Alamo does a great job of demonstrating that the Mexicans were not inhuman monsters, but were simply soldiers trying to quell an uprising within their territory. The American villification of Mexico is no longer a fundament of US History. In fact, nowadays,l the common consensus is that the U.S. were land hungry bullies who instigated War to satsify Manifest Destiny. At least I was taught something like that at my school.

c) There are not two continents, but one called America. The whole North America, South America crap was created by the U.S. so they could use the name Americans for themselves. Guess what? Mexicans, Argentineans, Brazilians, are also Americans because we live in the same continent.

I don't think any of us would dispute that, and the ones who would aren't really worth talking to. People from the US use American simply because, United Statesian, sounds akward as hell.

d) Japan offered to surrender before the bombs were dropped in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but the Americans refused because they wanted to test their new arsenal.

To be fair, this is still a highly debated issue in the U.S. and world wide. But as far as the Japanese offering to Surrender? That came on August 10th, the first bomb was dropped on Hiroshima on August 5th, the second, on Nagasaki, on August 9th. The offer to Surrender came on August 10th. But this doesn't excuse the Americans. For one, they might have waited for the Russians to declare war on Japan. Intelligence later showed that the Russian entrance in to the Pacific War was the deciding Factor in the Japanese Surrender. So maybe if they had waited they could have avoided it. Dropping an Atomic Weapon definitely WAS better than invading Hokkaido, but it's quite possible that both options could have been avoided.
But we have the gift of hindsight, and at the time, US planes were still being shot down on bombing runs over Japan. It was a very tense situation. I don't take either side, but I don't think that the US has a really one-sided view of it either. One thing I'd like to point out though, the Atom Bombs, in actuality, were less destructive than the American Conventional Weapons attacks. The Firebombings of Tokyo and Kobe killed far more than any of the Atomic Bombs. The most infamous run, that occured on March 9-10 killed over 100,000 people in one sustained bombing run. By comparison, the Hiroshima bomb killed around 67,000. What's even worse is that, while the Atomic Bombs had a symbolic purpose, to force a surrender, these Tokyo Firebombings had much less of one. I understand why people focus so much on this particular incident, but I think it's unwarranted. It is simply a tragedy of war. Every side commited atrocities and to try and criticize one side for being worse than the other is futile.

Well... The U.S. has one of the most distorted accounts of history.

a) David Crockett did not die defending the Alamo, he was executed afterwards.

b) People were not ambushed at the Alamo, they were offered to either leave it or die in it, and most women and children had left it.

Disney's most recent rendition of The Alamo does a great job of demonstrating that the Mexicans were not inhuman monsters, but were simply soldiers trying to quell an uprising within their territory. The American villification of Mexico is no longer a fundament of US History. In fact, nowadays,l the common consensus is that the U.S. were land hungry bullies who instigated War to satsify Manifest Destiny. At least I was taught something like that at my school.

c) There are not two continents, but one called America. The whole North America, South America crap was created by the U.S. so they could use the name Americans for themselves. Guess what? Mexicans, Argentineans, Brazilians, are also Americans because we live in the same continent.

I don't think any of us would dispute that, and the ones who would aren't really worth talking to. People from the US use American simply because, United Statesian, sounds akward as hell.

d) Japan offered to surrender before the bombs were dropped in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but the Americans refused because they wanted to test their new arsenal.

To be fair, this is still a highly debated issue in the U.S. and world wide. But as far as the Japanese offering to Surrender? That came on August 10th, the first bomb was dropped on Hiroshima on August 5th, the second, on Nagasaki, on August 9th. The offer to Surrender came on August 10th. But this doesn't excuse the Americans. For one, they might have waited for the Russians to declare war on Japan. Intelligence later showed that the Russian entrance in to the Pacific War was the deciding Factor in the Japanese Surrender. So maybe if they had waited they could have avoided it. Dropping an Atomic Weapon definitely WAS better than invading Hokkaido, but it's quite possible that neither need never have occured.


e) There were more people death because of witch hunts in the U.S. than people killed by the inquisition (this I got from a BBC show, were a PROTESTANT researcher studied all the available documentation from the inquisition).

True, but unlike the Inquisition, the witch hunts were seperate events carried out by mobs of disorganized people in small seperated New England Towns. They were based upon whims, and the targets were erratic. The Inquisition was the organized torture and murder of several very specific groups of people. Comparing those two is like comparing the lynchings that occured in the Jim Crow South with the Rwandan Genocide. It's totally different.

Besides which, I've never heard someone try to say that the Inquisition was worse than the Witch Hunts, or even try to compare the two. The worst thing I can say about the way schools treat the Witch Hunts is that they don't spend a lot of time on them. We just don't talk about them much as they are a minor footnote in US History.

I could go on...

Every Historian and every Teacher presents a different view of the past. I'd say that there are distortions made all the time in the U.S., but in other places too. I'd say the real crime being done by teachers in the U.S. isn't so much presenting a distorted view, but presenting only a single view, when really a single view of history is never sufficient. Almost every issue you presented is one that can be debated from many different angles, but the problem is that most teachers at the middle and high school level tend to look at two of those oppinnions at most. Every view of history is distorted in some way or another, even if only slightly, by the historian. To say that one view is distorted is ridiculous, because they're all different. But because of this, people need to look at a wide range of oppinions on the past. One will never suffice.

EDIT

What the heck is this all about? Since when wasn't blood red and blue?

Blood Vessels are red and blue. But the actual blood is more like Red and Dark-Purplish Red.

[Rove]

uh, no, there's TWO continents, North America and South America. Though you arer right about Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, Colombia, etc. being in the same American REGION and being Americans becasue of this, there are still 2 American CONTINENTS although there is one American REGION.
If you learned anything about Pangea you'd know this.

Wikipedia on Continents http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continents

Seven landmasses and their associated islands are commonly reckoned as continents, but these may be consolidated. For example, North and South America are often considered a single continent, and Asia is often united with Europe.

The 7-continent model is usually taught in Western Europe, the United States, and Australia. In Canada, the government-approved Atlas of Canada names 7 continents and teaches Oceania instead of Australia. In East Asia, especially in the Orient, it is taught as a 7-region model since the rendition of "continent" in Chinese is similar to "island", which connotes a separate smaller landmass surrounded by water. In China, Japan, and Korea, the English term Australasia and local translations of Oceania are most often used. The 6-continent Americas model is taught in England, Asia and Latin America but, again, it is often taught in terms of the 6-region model. The 6-continent/region Eurasia model is preferred by the geographic community, while the geologic community forgoes local differences by classifying based on tectonic plates. It is especially used in Russia, elsewhere in Eastern Europe, and Japan, which often refer to the 7-continent model as a Western cultural convention. Historians may use the 5-continent/region model in which North Africa is separated from Sub-Saharan Africa and attached to Eurasia (Jared Diamond) or the 4-continent/region Afro-Eurasian (Andre Gunder Frank).

You are both correct, if you base your opinions on where you studied. Since I'm from Latin America I was also taught that America is only one continent, otherwise, the different regions would have different names to differenciate the continents, right?

[etane]

Sometimes I wish middle America ie Kansas, Tennessee etc. are on a continent of their own.

And, I think it's about time this test make a comeback.

Gullibility Test (http://www.animeacademy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20629&highlight=quiz)

[soundchazer]

To be fair, this is still a highly debated issue in the U.S. and world wide. But as far as the Japanese offering to Surrender? That came on August 10th, the first bomb was dropped on Hiroshima on August 5th, the second, on Nagasaki, on August 9th. The offer to Surrender came on August 10th. But this doesn't excuse the Americans. For one, they might have waited for the Russians to declare war on Japan. Intelligence later showed that the Russian entrance in to the Pacific War was the deciding Factor in the Japanese Surrender. So maybe if they had waited they could have avoided it. Dropping an Atomic Weapon definitely WAS better than invading Hokkaido, but it's quite possible that both options could have been avoided.
But we have the gift of hindsight, and at the time, US planes were still being shot down on bombing runs over Japan. It was a very tense situation. I don't take either side, but I don't think that the US has a really one-sided view of it either. One thing I'd like to point out though, the Atom Bombs, in actuality, were less destructive than the American Conventional Weapons attacks. The Firebombings of Tokyo and Kobe killed far more than any of the Atomic Bombs. The most infamous run, that occured on March 9-10 killed over 100,000 people in one sustained bombing run. By comparison, the Hiroshima bomb killed around 67,000. What's even worse is that, while the Atomic Bombs had a symbolic purpose, to force a surrender, these Tokyo Firebombings had much less of one. I understand why people focus so much on this particular incident, but I think it's unwarranted. It is simply a tragedy of war. Every side commited atrocities and to try and criticize one side for being worse than the other is futile.

"In 1946, the U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey examined the evidence and concluded that that "certainly prior to December 31, 1945, and in all probability prior to November 1, 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated." In June 1945, the United States had intercepted Japanese cables to the Soviet Union seeking help with their offer of surrender. In addition, American diplomats and negotiators in June 1945 told President Truman that the Japanese were seeking to surrender on one condition--that they be allowed to keep their emperor. But President Truman and the United States refused these initial Japanese offers, demanding that Japan surrender unconditionally and agree to give up their emperor."

"When General Marshall dispatched Truman's order to drop the atomic bomb, Marshall already believed that Japan had lost the war. Shortly before he died, Marshall told an interviewer that the atomic bomb had precipitated the surrender only "by months.""

"In June 1945, top American military commanders advised President Truman not to use the atomic bomb. General Dwight Eisenhower, supreme commander of American forces in Europe, told Secretary of War Stimson "that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary." In July 1945 Eisenhower met with Truman and advised him not to use the bomb. The chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, Admiral Leahy, also advised Truman not to drop the atomic bomb, arguing that Japan was already defeated. Moreover, the Army Air Force Chief, General Henry Arnold, believed that Japan would have surrendered without the use of the atomic bomb and without an American invasion of Japan. So when McGeorge Bundy and others argue that the military unanimously supported the dropping of the atomic bomb, he is simply wrong."

"In his own diaries as early as June 1945, Truman indicates that he knows that Japan is trying to surrender. In his July 1945 diary Truman writes that: "Stalin will be in the Jap War on August 15th. Fini Japs when that comes about." In writing to his wife on July 18th, Truman said: "I've gotten what I came for--Stalin goes to war on August 15th with no strings on it...I'll say that we'll end the war a year sooner now, and think of the kids who won't be killed." But if Truman realized that the Japanese would surrender soon after the Russians entered the war, why did he drop the atomic bombs about one week before the Russians declared war against Japan? If he wanted to end the war quickly and save lives as he said he did, why didn't he simply wait for the Russians to enter the fighting against Japan on August 15th? This is the critical question to ask in order to understand the real reasons the United States dropped the atomic bombs on Japan."

http://www.colorado.edu/AmStudies/lewis/2010/atomic.htm

[Ninja Realist]

I agree that dropping the bomb was unnecessary, but even if they hadn't firebombings would most likely have continued, and the humanitarian advantage probably wouldn't have been terribly significant. But like I said, we have the gift of hindsight. Everything was even less clear at the time the bomb was dropped.

[GWS923]

Well excuse me if I find completely Eurocentric world views to be completely disgusting, and more than a little bit racist.

If by Eurocentric you mean, not refuting every single western idea for the sake of trying to be different like you do in every single post you make, then sure.

[etane]

The emperor already declared surrender before the bombing. The declaration was through telegram before the official signing of the treaty. But, we had to show the Russians who's boss, and that's why we dropped the bombs. We also had to give the Americans a fireworks show for their tax dollars. How else can we explain spending trillions of tax dollars on some bomb we never used. Saw this on some documentary on History Channel.

[RuKiAsShAdOw]

The Firebombings of Tokyo and Kobe killed far more than any of the Atomic Bombs. The most infamous run, that occured on March 9-10 killed over 100,000 people in one sustained bombing run. By comparison, the Hiroshima bomb killed around 67,000.

Uh, apparently you dont know anything about "fallout" and "radiation." Sure the firebombings killed more people initially, the atomic bombs created a large area of radiation which poisoned all those NOT killed in the initial blast. Certainly those SUFFERING from the radiation sickness are doing just that, suffering. Also those who are suffering radiation sickness are even passing it down to their children, that is if they can have any. And Im pretty sure many people will agree that suffering is worse than death. So, the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were probably worse than the firebombings. I do believe the US was in the wrong on the bombings, or at least TWO bombings, but WE have the gift of hindsight, as everyone has already mentioned, and they didnt back then, they were desperate to find an end.

[soundchazer]

If by Eurocentric you mean, not refuting every single western idea for the sake of trying to be different like you do in every single post you make, then sure.

Play nice kids. Don't make me use the stick again. ;)

[General Suburbia]

Uh, apparently you dont know anything about "fallout" and "radiation." Sure the firebombings killed more people initially, the atomic bombs created a large area of radiation which poisoned all those NOT killed in the initial blast. Certainly those SUFFERING from the radiation sickness are doing just that, suffering. Also those who are suffering radiation sickness are even passing it down to their children, that is if they can have any. And Im pretty sure many people will agree that suffering is worse than death. So, the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were probably worse than the firebombings. I do believe the US was in the wrong on the bombings, or at least TWO bombings, but WE have the gift of hindsight, as everyone has already mentioned, and they didnt back then, they were desperate to find an end.
I think you're getting off topic here.

And yes, Japan agreed to surrender, but refused unconditional surrender. And then they got pwned. And thus the Cold War began. Or something like that...hope I wasn't being too blunt/inconsiderate.

As for stupid things teachers tell students, I don't think it's always intended. Sometimes, the teachers are just stupid and have no idea what they're talking about. I once had a heated argument with my 4th grade teacher on which planet's surface was actually hotter. I said Venus, he said Mercury. He was also able to convince the class that light had a habit of bending a lot.

[RuKiAsShAdOw]

He was also able to convince the class that light had a habit of bending a lot.

HA. If we could bend light around things we could turn invisible...

[Kuzu Ryu Sen]

I think you're getting off topic here.

And yes, Japan agreed to surrender, but refused unconditional surrender. And then they got pwned. And thus the Cold War began. Or something like that...hope I wasn't being too blunt/inconsiderate.

And of course, there's the sweet irony of America keeping the Emperor in his position as a strong unifying force to keep the nation together... despite that being the demand that the Japanese would not yield to during the war.

Not really that relevant, but...

Dropping an Atomic Weapon definitely WAS better than invading Hokkaido, but it's quite possible that both options could have been avoided... But we have the gift of hindsight, and at the time, US planes were still being shot down on bombing runs over Japan

The US invasions were to take place in Kyushu first, to secure airbases, and then in the Kanto Plain under that air support. I don't think the Japanese would have cared too much if the US marched into Hokkaido.

US planes were basically demolishing Japanese cities with utter impunity at that time, considering that the Enola Gay herself was a lone, heavy, slow bomber with no military escort. Yet it completed its mission utterly unscathed by Japanese fire.

As for the whole atomic bomb issue... Japan would have likely surrendered, bomb or no bomb, without the need for a land invasion. However, there were two risks: a) the hard liners like Anami Korechika would force out the moderates like PM Suzuki (which nearly happened even after the bomb), and b) the Russians, not giving a damn about manpower or losses or anything like that, would have invaded Japan before Japan could surrender. As cruel as this is, better to use two bombs on Japan to declare the US's nuclear potential and introduce the concept of MAD than to use nukes against Russia in the Cold War, thinking misguidedly that the Russians wouldn't counterattack (this scenario, but initiated by the Russians, could work as well).

Oh, and Rukia, if you don't think firebombing is suffering, go watch Grave of the Fireflies again. Better yet, go read an account of the remains of Dresden, where they found puddles of fat melted into the floor which used to be people.

[Ninja Realist]

I meant to say Honshu.

Really.

I did.

>_>

EDIT

Anyways my real point was this: In War, every nation comits atrocities. The US bombed Tokyo, Britain bombed Dresden, The Japanese massacred hundreds of thousands in Nanking, the Soviets were responsible for the Katyn Massacre. War is a terrible thing, and trying to villify one side of a conflict or the other is pretty stupid.

[Tyrdium]

Heh, they taught me a lot of crap in my writing classes in middle school.

"You need to keep to the 5-paragraph format!"
"Never use the first person!"
"The final paragraph should be a close repeat of the first paragraph!"

c) There are not two continents, but one called America. The whole North America, South America crap was created by the U.S. so they could use the name Americans for themselves. Guess what? Mexicans, Argentineans, Brazilians, are also Americans because we live in the same continent.
But North and South America are separate continents! We cut American in half!

---

RuKiAsShAdOw, you really need to deflate your ego. Much of what you're saying is flat-out wrong. Light can be bent. It's called gravity. Or refraction.

[swankygoose]

My Junior High science teacher once got into an argument with me, telling me that fat weighed more than muscle and some how managed to convince the whole class to think the same. When i brought in an article the next day dissproving his theory he was "to busy to make a comment".

[Ninja Realist]

Uh, apparently you dont know anything about "fallout" and "radiation." Sure the firebombings killed more people initially, the atomic bombs created a large area of radiation which poisoned all those NOT killed in the initial blast. Certainly those SUFFERING from the radiation sickness are doing just that, suffering. Also those who are suffering radiation sickness are even passing it down to their children, that is if they can have any. And Im pretty sure many people will agree that suffering is worse than death. So, the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were probably worse than the firebombings. I do believe the US was in the wrong on the bombings, or at least TWO bombings, but WE have the gift of hindsight, as everyone has already mentioned, and they didnt back then, they were desperate to find an end.

I do know about fallout and Radiation. Those probably killed more people than the bombs themselves, but I think it's alittle cavalier to say that the people who got firebombed didn't suffer. The way you spin it, burning alive in a vortex of napalm induced fire isn't that unpleasant.

[RuKiAsShAdOw]

RuKiAsShAdOw, you really need to deflate your ego. Much of what you're saying is flat-out wrong. Light can be bent. It's called gravity. Or refraction.

What i was getting at is that light cannot be bent around objects. Also, refraction is different from bending light.

Besides the whole light bending thing, what have I been saying thats just "flat out wrong"? Seriously, saying that my ego is oversized, what?

[bwing55543]

Columbus is a hero because he discovered America.

yeah, right.

A. He landed in the Carribean, not in America.

B. He killed/enslaved thousands of natives.

C. He died convinced that he landed in China.

[General Suburbia]

Columbus was a hero because he knew something that no one else knew - the world was round.

Most educated people knew that the world was round, the reason they tried to prevent Columbus from sailing around the world was because they believed that the water connecting Europe and China spanned a distance far too large to be crossed. Columbus, being the idiot that he was, believed the world to be much smaller.

Fortunately for him, America stood between Europe and China. Lucky him.

[soundchazer]

Columbus is a hero because he discovered America.

yeah, right.

A. He landed in the Carribean, not in America.

B. He killed/enslaved thousands of natives.

C. He died convinced that he landed in China.

a. The Caribbean is part of the American continent (again... the Continent, according to Spain, who first claimed the discovery, is called America, not a single country).

b. He was not the one who enslaved/killed the natives, it was the Spanish army, specially since the Caribe indians (from which that sea takes its name), were highly hostile and took no quarters.

c. THat one is partially true. He thought he landed in Asia, not necessarily China.

[bwing55543]

Columbus actually said in his journal how the natives would make very good slaves. He also mentioned the word "gold" a grand total of seveny-five times within just a few entries. I don't know, but I've heard the natives were pretty peaceful. However, the Spanish were known to take a native baby, toss it to a bunch of hungry dogs, and bet on which dog gets the baby first.

To crown it all, Leif Erikson got to America about 500 years before Columbus did. Also, Scientists are finding evidence that the first people (excluding Native Americans) to make it to America were actually Chinese.

[Itachi Uchiha]

lol... I don't even want to comment on what some people have said...

I just want to add a few things on the top of my head -

The Sons of Liberty... I love how they make them out to be hero's in elementary school when they were just a street gang.

They leave out the fact that George Washington was the idiot who started the French and Indian War.

The Boston Massacre! The fact that they make out the British solders to be the bad people here. They weren’t necessarily right, but in school they conveniently leave out the fact that the British solders were brought before local Boston courts for their offence and declared innocent or (in the case of two solders) given a slap on the wrist.

[kyubichan]

Our 'elders' do not teach stupid false things only to children, but to anyone under their authority. (NOTE: I do not hate teachers; my mother is one.)

Stupid false thing #1: Adults/people in authority are ALWAYS right.

I got sent to the Principal's office when I was in grade school at least once every year for four years. It was because my teachers said something I disagreed with and I would not acknowledge that I was wrong, because up to now, I believe I am not.
First actual example was when my (female) teacher touched my male classmate's crotch and said (in our local dialect) that his sexual organ was growing larger O_o I reprimanded her for that by saying that it was inappropriate, and she snapped back that she was the teacher and what do I care what she says or does, I don't know anything since I'm a kid (I was in third grade then).
2nd actual example: I'm in college, and my Differential Calculus instructor gives an exam, the class answers it, and when I get my answer sheet back, I notice I got one problem wrong. When the teacher showed the solution on the board, I saw that mine was correct, except for the fact that I used a different method. I asked again and again whether he could consider it, and he said my solution was wrong because the one he gave was the only one for that problem. Thankfully, he reviewed my answer (because I was annoying), and announced that my answer was indeed correct, just shorter and easier.

Stupid false thing #2: "You are your brother's/sister's keeper."

The fact is, for quite a long time, you're just a kid, like your sibling. And you usually don't know a whole lot more about life than he/she does. The fact is, our parents are our keepers. They just want someone else to blame in case they screw up.

[bwing55543]

lol... I don't even want to comment on what some people have said...

I just want to add a few things on the top of my head -

The Sons of Liberty... I love how they make them out to be hero's in elementary school when they were just a street gang.

They leave out the fact that George Washington was the idiot who started the French and Indian War.

The Boston Massacre! The fact that they make out the British solders to be the bad people here. They weren’t necessarily right, but in school they conveniently leave out the fact that the British solders were brought before local Boston courts for their offence and declared innocent or (in the case of two solders) given a slap on the wrist.

The colonists started the fight at the "massacre" by tossing snowballs and rocks at the soldiers.

Also, they make the Boston Tea Party as such a heroic thing when in reality it was a bunch of angry thugs boarding and vandalizing a bunch of ships. I'd punish someone too if they destroyed something I'm selling.

[Major Tom]

The colonists started the fight at the "massacre" by tossing snowballs and rocks at the soldiers.

I was under the impression that there was as a (very) tense standoff between the troopers and armed colonials, and there was a shot fired.

To this day nobody actually knows who fired the shot, but the end result is that the troopers thought the colonials were firing at them, and the colonials thought the troopers were firing at them, and chaos ensued.

It has been suggested that a third party, one who would profit greatly from a war, fired the shot at nobody in particular, knowinf that just the noise will light the fire.

Then again, I could be wrong. I got that from a documentary I watched a long time ago and I could be geting my incidents mixed up.

[swankygoose]

I was under the impression that there was as a (very) tense standoff between the troopers and armed colonials, and there was a shot fired.

To this day nobody actually knows who fired the shot, but the end result is that the troopers thought the colonials were firing at them, and the colonials thought the troopers were firing at them, and chaos ensued.

It has been suggested that a third party, one who would profit greatly from a war, fired the shot at nobody in particular, knowinf that just the noise will light the fire.

Then again, I could be wrong. I got that from a documentary I watched a long time ago and I could be geting my incidents mixed up.

I think your talkin about "The Shot Heard Round the World" which signified to many people the begginning of the revolutionary war. Cause Bwing's talkin about the Boston Massacre.

[Major Tom]

The Wiki entry on the 'Boston Massacre' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_massacre)

I was getting my incidents mixed up then.

[soundchazer]

Columbus actually said in his journal how the natives would make very good slaves. He also mentioned the word "gold" a grand total of seveny-five times within just a few entries. I don't know, but I've heard the natives were pretty peaceful. However, the Spanish were known to take a native baby, toss it to a bunch of hungry dogs, and bet on which dog gets the baby first.

To crown it all, Leif Erikson got to America about 500 years before Columbus did. Also, Scientists are finding evidence that the first people (excluding Native Americans) to make it to America were actually Chinese.

This is what Columbus first encountered:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribes

We all know about other people being there first, but nobody claimed to have found a new Continent until the Spanish did, the Vikings and Chinese before have no real significance, other than historical and antropological amusement.

[Itachi Uchiha]

The Wiki entry on the 'Boston Massacre' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_massacre)

I was getting my incidents mixed up then.

Wow this is the first time I disagree with wiki! I'm a history major and know a decent amount about the Boston Massacre... What I was taught and know from my own personal reading doesn't agree entirely with that article. I believe you are right Tom.

My own knowledge -

The British solders were confronted by an angry mob (people angry about the British military presence and sailors angry about losing their jobs to moonlighting British solders). The mob started throwing snow balls, bottles, pieces of wood, etc. Captain Thomas Preston was hit by a foreign object and knocked down to the ground, upon regaining his feet he heard a gun shot. The actual gun shot was fired a few blocks away, the result of an unrelated street brawl. The commander felt that the shot was directed at his solders and reacted by giving the order for his troops to let loose one valley of bullets into the crowd. The incident resulted in 4 deaths and 8 injuries. Sam Adams and the Sons of Liberty jumped on the situation and named it the Boston Massacre.

[soundchazer]

Wow this is the first time I disagree with wiki! I'm a history major and know a decent amount about the Boston Massacre... What I was taught and know from my own personal reading doesn't agree entirely with that article. I believe you are right Tom.

My own knowledge -

The British solders were confronted by an angry mob (people angry about the British military presence and sailors angry about losing their jobs to moonlighting British solders). The mob started throwing snow balls, bottles, pieces of wood, etc. Captain Thomas Preston was hit by a foreign object and knocked down to the ground, upon regaining his feet he heard a gun shot. The actual gun shot was fired a few blocks away, the result of an unrelated street brawl. The commander felt that the shot was directed at his solders and reacted by giving the order for his troops to let loose one valley of bullets into the crowd. The incident resulted in 4 deaths and 8 injuries. Sam Adams and the Sons of Liberty jumped on the situation and named it the Boston Massacre.

That one falls under the same category as the myth of men, women and children being slaughtered at the Alamo: mostly fiction created to serve a political agenda.

[bwing55543]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arawak

See the bottom of this page on European contact genocide.

[Trine]

The role of a parent is to protect and shape the child's Psychology so that it would beable to survive in "the real world". some parents use methods of lying/hiding to achieve this. is it bad? depends on what the lying/hiding achieves. you wouldn't show a child X-rated stuff (unless your sick) because you don't want your child to be indecent.

[Freya]

My Mother told me when I was really little, if I were to ever open the door while the car was moving, I'd get sucked out and I'd die.

I never, EVER opened the car door but I DID learn (like 12 years later) that it was false. >.> My brother opened the door to like spit or something and I flipped out I told him he was going to get sucked out and he just looked at me like "What the hell have you been smoking????"

Than I asked my Mom why she lied to me and she claims she never did :thud:

[Roark]

What i was getting at is that light cannot be bent around objects. Also, refraction is different from bending light.

Besides the whole light bending thing, what have I been saying thats just "flat out wrong"? Seriously, saying that my ego is oversized, what?

But... light DOES bend around objects.

A) Any object that has mass has (minor) gravitational pull. Ergo, all light bends when approaching an object, if only minutely.

B) Diffraction. Light can and does bend around openings. It doesn't travel in any sort of straight line, but rather curves to fill an area. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffraction
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment
for the experiments that give evidence to this statement.

[Tamanegi Sensei]

You know that myth or stereotype about rednecks not havin their teeth at a young age? Yeah.... it's true.

[(V)]

As many people have put it is just the easy way to do it.

[(V)]

My Mother told me when I was really little, if I were to ever open the door while the car was moving, I'd get sucked out and I'd die.

I never, EVER opened the car door but I DID learn (like 12 years later) that it was false. >.> My brother opened the door to like spit or something and I flipped out I told him he was going to get sucked out and he just looked at me like "What the hell have you been smoking????"

Than I asked my Mom why she lied to me and she claims she never did :thud:
Why would you get sucked out...:sweatdrop Im sure she had your best interest in mind.^^

[Freya]

Why would you get sucked out...:sweatdrop Im sure she had your best interest in mind.^^

lmao I have NO idea, she just said that!

[kyubichan]

my mom told e the same thing when I was a kid. I never opened the door, but I never believed her anyway.

Freya's mom probably meant something else (like that when the car turns and the door is open, you'd fall out, a kid would ask "Why?" and she'd have to explain the physics involved)...the "sucked out and die" thing probably seemed convenient at that time.

[bwing55543]

I once opened the door of a moving car, but I didn't fall out.

Anyway, I was once told that when the Japanese Americans were locked up in prison during WWII, it was for their protection. Everywhere else, it says that Japanese Americans were just scapegoats for Pearl Harbor.

[LadySage]

I once opened the door of a moving car, but I didn't fall out.

Anyway, I was once told that when the Japanese Americans were locked up in prison during WWII, it was for their protection. Everywhere else, it says that Japanese Americans were just scapegoats for Pearl Harbor.

The Japanese-Americans were put in internment camps, which were something akin to prisons, but not quite.

And the Japanese definitely bombed Pearl Harbor.

[RuKiAsShAdOw]

I once opened the door of a moving car, but I didn't fall out.

Anyway, I was once told that when the Japanese Americans were locked up in prison during WWII, it was for their protection.

When were you told this? Its quite obvious it wasnt. When has the US government, or any government for that matter, ever locked a group of people up to "protect" them?

[bwing55543]

The Japanese-Americans were put in internment camps, which were something akin to prisons, but not quite.

And the Japanese definitely bombed Pearl Harbor.

I said Japanese AMERICANS!!!! I know Pearl Harbor was bombed by the Japanese.

[bwing55543]

When were you told this? Its quite obvious it wasnt. When has the US government, or any government for that matter, ever locked a group of people up to "protect" them?

Someone convinced that no matter what, the US government is and was always right.

[Phate]

Someone convinced that no matter what, the US government is and was always right.
Or someone who was just wrong. I don't believe the US government (or Canadian for that matter) said anything about relocating those of Japanese descent to internment camps for their protection.

On that note, I was always taught that Imperial Japan during WWII was led by Tojo. It's a good thing there are people like Drake around to point out such fallacies. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/Ph4t3/Emot/emot-keke.gif Inside joke.

[PsychoSaiya-jin]

My Mother told me when I was really little, if I were to ever open the door while the car was moving, I'd get sucked out and I'd die.

I never, EVER opened the car door but I DID learn (like 12 years later) that it was false. >.> My brother opened the door to like spit or something and I flipped out I told him he was going to get sucked out and he just looked at me like "What the hell have you been smoking????"

Than I asked my Mom why she lied to me and she claims she never did :thud:
Ahh
In those 12 years, door anti-suction technology had advanced to the point that you could even open the door of a car quite moving and not be completely destroyed.
Thats being said, have you not seen the video of the idiot that do that and got a face full of bumper? OUCH!

[Freya]

Ahh
In those 12 years, door anti-suction technology had advanced to the point that you could even open the door of a car quite moving and not be completely destroyed.
Thats being said, have you not seen the video of the idiot that do that and got a face full of bumper? OUCH!


No, I haven't seen that video, but I sure can picture it!

Yes, those good scientists protecting us from getting sucked out of cars! (maybe she got Earth and space confused?????) but seriously, I believed that till I was like 13 or 14.

[RuKiAsShAdOw]

wow, what kind of 'rents did you guys have?? getting sucked out of the car if you open the door? never heard that one...

[soundchazer]

My parents were a little bit more realistic with that one: "don't open the door because you could fall of the car", which is in fact true.

I do agree though that a little white lie to keep your kids straight is not necessarily a bad thing. It will all depend on how stubborn your kid is. My guess is Freya was really bad at following parental instructions when she was a little girl.

[Freya]

My parents were a little bit more realistic with that one: "don't open the door because you could fall of the car", which is in fact true.

I do agree though that a little white lie to keep your kids straight is not necessarily a bad thing. It will all depend on how stubborn your kid is. My guess is Freya was really bad at following parental instructions when she was a little girl.


I did get spanked at least once a day hahahahahha but I never opened the car doors. I think that came from when I asked my Mother what would happen if I opened the door.

But yeah, I was a horrible child, to my siblings, my parents and my friends. Thank God I've learned since than.

[(V)]

lmao I have NO idea, she just said that!
My mom just said .... well she didnt i knew not to open the door , i knew we were going to fast and i would die ...:iamabanan road burn is fun!

[miss demi]

My mama told em that i had to vote for george bush because the other cantidates were evil sinners. we're really religous,

but whateve.

[silan]

My mama told em that i had to vote for george bush because the other cantidates were evil sinners.
Well, that's as logical a reason for voting for Bush as I've ever heard.

[Blue Audio]

Republicanism is the new Southern Baptism? Imma bow down to G Dubbs and praise him as Allah?

Needs more fundementalism.

[kyubichan]

My mama told em that i had to vote for george bush because the other cantidates were evil sinners

If her mama wuz everyone's mama down here, our 13th sick joke of a president never would've won XD

Wonder what her mama would say about her being bi.

[ash_chan]

Why did we make up the story with the stork? Because telling kids the truth would raise up so many more questions and maybe "destroy their innocence."

Actually...


So delicate were Victorian sensibilities that members of polite society would blush at the mention of anything physical. Instead of being pregnant, women were in a delicate condition, in a family way, or expectant. Women did not give birth; they experienced a blessed event. Thier children were not born; rather, they were brought by the stork, or came into the world.

It wasn't just for children that babies were brought by the stork. It was for everyone, because during the Victorian era, prudishness was at it's peak.

[mamimi_kawaii]

screw all this talk of blood cells and George Bush, what about the easter bunny? Santa Claus? Parents spend Hundreds of dollers on holidays like that for no other reason then to make their children appreciate the christian holiday. And it still doesnt work cause the children learn to appreciate the presents n such, and not the holiday itself. I mean honestly, what the hell does a fat man in a bunny suit have to do with Jesus dying? Seriously. Bull crapppp.

[ash_chan]

screw all this talk of blood cells and George Bush, what about the easter bunny? Santa Claus? Parents spend Hundreds of dollers on holidays like that for no other reason then to make their children appreciate the christian holiday. And it still doesnt work cause the children learn to appreciate the presents n such, and not the holiday itself. I mean honestly, what the hell does a fat man in a bunny suit have to do with Jesus dying? Seriously. Bull crapppp.


I love that we went from crucifixion and ressurection to...chocolate marshmellow bunnies and colored eggs?

Well, I suppose I can understand. Who'd want a creme-filled cross? It's be a waste to just let it sit there, but to take a bite out of it would be blasphemy.

...Not that I'd care. Chocolate is chocolate, no matter what shape it's in. I remember they attempted to incorperate the egg hunt into Easter in Sunday School. "In this egg holds a nail, that sybolizes Jesus and..." But all I kept thinking was "Can we get on with the egg hunt now? I have to get more than Jimmy so he'll give me a snickers..."

[Griveton]

Why would you get sucked out...:sweatdrop Im sure she had your best interest in mind.^^

Technically, you are being sucked out. The pressure differential between the still air inside of the car and the moving air of outisde will create a flow outwards, which WILL try to push you out.


Then again, in a car the forces acting are usually so minute you won't even really feel them. However that IS why papers might flow out whenever you open a window

:p

Of course, this is why you do get sucked out of a plane or a spacecraft. It's the same principle, only the pressure differential is larger in the aircraft (because it's traveling faster), and the spacecraft (because outside pressure tends to zero).

[KiraraKim]

I always come into conversations late.

Personally I find some of the anti-American messages interesting. I am not going to go into specifics but once I was in middle school I would say I had a pretty clear understanding that America did a lot of things wrong. In fact in school I learned about Manifest Destiny, The Trail of Tears, the Japanese internment camps, etc. I even eventually learned that the Civil war really had nothing to do with Slavery. So despite our "sucky" history books we certainly were not taught that America was perfect (and I don't think most of us would say that it is perfect now).

[Sae]

I always come into conversations late.

Personally I find some of the anti-American messages interesting. I am not going to go into specifics but once I was in middle school I would say I had a pretty clear understanding that America did a lot of things wrong. In fact in school I learned about Manifest Destiny, The Trail of Tears, the Japanese internment camps, etc. I even eventually learned that the Civil war really had nothing to do with Slavery. So despite our "sucky" history books we certainly were not taught that America was perfect (and I don't think most of us would say that it is perfect now).

Agreed. They certainly get the point across that America has a not so wonderful past and a not too bright future! Well it's pretty much screwed over our generation with increased suicidal rate by 400% and self conscious thinking instead of being ourselves. Well hey! Lets all blame Bush! Not that he has done anything for the country anyways besides create an absurd "No Child Left Behind" scheme for us to force the homeless behind bars. Well that's all for now.

Sae-chan

[kyubichan]

So despite our "sucky" history books we certainly were not taught that America was perfect (and I don't think most of us would say that it is perfect now).

Our history books make it look like the US "saved" us from Spain. Fact is, the Spanish gov't was already letting go of its colonies at that time and had already acknowledged the Republic of the Philippines under Pres. Emilio Aguinaldo. The US came in with their big ships and their dollars, and "bought" the Philippines. Now who would give up an opportunity like that? Not Spain, for sure. Still, we owe formal education and Protestantism to the US, and for that we are grateful.

[bigal60]

x

[bigal60]

[QUOTE=Kuras_Daedron;490463]What the heck is this all about? Since when wasn't blood red and blue? Your making stuff up. Paul Rever, or what ever his name is, he made it to the cities, but nto aloine, thier were 2 mid night riders but only one is well known. This is all crazy. Did you know that Scalped Indian Skulls were great ash trays and potts for the early armerica settlers. It wasn't untill scalpers started taking the heads of women and children t hat the Indians decided to retaliate.


hey i'm an indian and my people hated whities the moment we saw them on our land so you cant blame everything on the white folk but still tat was a pretty lame thing to do