The Soccer Thread

[Benny_]

Well.. football thread, but soccer to avoid confusion with the 4 or 5 other codes.

Anyway I noticed that there weren't any threads on soccer on AA. Given the size of AA's student populace, I'm pretty sure there are a few fans out there.

So to start things off, Liverpool won overnight and finally snuck into the 4th Champions League spot. I know it's early days yet, but I'm still rather happy anyway (mainly because Kewell plays for them and I'm Australian).

[soundchazer]

Mexico 4, USA 0... Mexico goes to Athens, USA goes nowhere.

[Daddyspider]

Speaking of that Mexico game. The Mexican fans were chanting "Osama" during that contest.

Now those are no hold barred, rabbid soccer fans.

[Kuzu Ryu Sen]

Originally posted by Daddyspider
Now those are no hold barred, rabbid soccer fans.

There's any other kind? :D

Can't wait for Euro 2004 this year. I just find Intl. football that much better than club.

[Shiva]

Originally posted by Benny_

So to start things off, Liverpool won overnight and finally snuck into the 4th Champions League spot. I know it's early days yet, but I'm still rather happy anyway (mainly because Kewell plays for them and I'm Australian).

Glory Glory Man United!!! Guess we can't be friends then, hey Benny? :p

Bad game against Middlesborough, 5 points behind Arsenal now. :(

[krel]

Liverpool 2:1 Man City
Man U 2:3 Boro **edit**

:D

So to start things off, Liverpool won overnight and finally snuck into the 4th Champions League spot. I know it's early days yet, but I'm still rather happy anyway (mainly because Kewell plays for them and I'm Australian).

Knowing Liverpool's form, they could win this match and lose the next. :P Remember, Liverpool started last season well and were top after like 10 matches then went on 11 games without winning (or something like that). Just hope that pool don't turn too many corners this season.

[Benny_]

Originally posted by krel
Liverpool 2:1 Man City
Man U 0:2 Boro

:D



Knowing Liverpool's form, they could win this match and lose the next. :P Remember, Liverpool started last season well and were top after like 10 matches then went on 11 games without winning (or something like that). Just hope that pool don't turn too many corners this season.


Yeah.. I'm not getting my hopes up yet, but Liverpool has been gradually working their way up, so I can only hope that trend continues. They've got a relatively easier run home than Newcastle and Charlton, so fingers crossed.

Shiva.. I'm Australian and watch football from a relatively neutral point of view. So while I'm aware of the rivalry between Liverpool and Man United, I'm not really caught up in it Mostly I like teams which are the most entertaining, Liverpool's the only exception. So I do enjoy watching Man United and I'd even support them against most clubs..and Chelsea. Arsenal I'm 50-50 on... also rather fond of Leeds and hope they'll avoid relegation again this year.

[loner]

I'm a big Blackburn fan, who started to support them during their glory years and followed them all the way since. Likewise, I'm not into the rivalries. While Bolton did get on my nerves in that crazy game, I can only pity Burnley and Barnsley.

Rovers are underachieving this season, but things finally start to look a bit bright now. Youngsters like Stead and Gallagher finally provided the team with the youthful vigour that the listless Yorke simply lacked. We still need at least 2 more defenders though. At least we kept a clean sheet against Boro and restricted the high-scoring Newcastle to only 1 goal.

Benny: We have an Aussie here too, though I'm not sure if you like him very much. He did left Carragher in a sorry state.

Btw, wasn't it 3-2 between Man Utd and Boro?

[krel]

Originally posted by loner

Benny: We have an Aussie here too, though I'm not sure if you like him very much. He did left Carragher in a sorry state.

Btw, wasn't it 3-2 between Man Utd and Boro?

Yes, it is 3-2 to Boro sorry i've edited it. :O

Anyway is the Aussie you mentioned the fella who tackled Carragher and injured him for 6 months earlier in the season? :angry

[Benny_]

Originally posted by krel
Yes, it is 3-2 to Boro sorry i've edited it. :O

Anyway is the Aussie you mentioned the fella who tackled Carragher and injured him for 6 months earlier in the season? :angry

ya Lucas Neill.. gotta apologize on Australian Liverpool supporters behalf I s'pose. Well good news is he'll return in a few weeks, I think Baros' in the next 2 weeks or so will be more welcome though.

[Seidaku]

Originally posted by soundchazer
Mexico 4, USA 0... Mexico goes to Athens, USA goes nowhere.

Does that really make the loss at the world cup any less painful?

[soundchazer]

As a matter of fact, it does. The Olympic games are the World Cup for the under-23 national teams. Mexico is going, the U.S. is not, even with "stars" like Landon Donovan, Beasley and Convey. It also means that the Mexican new generation of players can kick the U.S. new generation of players (which need to find good defenders in a hurry... oh wait... they will probably import them from overseas and grant them citizensip).

[Benny_]

Eh.. with the new breed of Brazilian talent (Kaka, Diego, Robinho etc.) Brazil's a sure bet for the gold

[krel]

Originally posted by Benny_
Eh.. with the new breed of Brazilian talent (Kaka, Diego, Robinho etc.) Brazil's a sure bet for the gold

Brazil don't need them to win the gold. :P

Anyway, i've been hearing news about a loop-hole of some sort in the offside rule? Does anyone know anything about it, cause i can't seem to find any articles of it.

[Seidaku]

Originally posted by soundchazer
As a matter of fact, it does. The Olympic games are the World Cup for the under-23 national teams. Mexico is going, the U.S. is not, even with "stars" like Landon Donovan, Beasley and Convey. It also means that the Mexican new generation of players can kick the U.S. new generation of players (which need to find good defenders in a hurry... oh wait... they will probably import them from overseas and grant them citizensip).

Whatever helps you sleep at night. :p

[soundchazer]

Originally posted by Benny_
Eh.. with the new breed of Brazilian talent (Kaka, Diego, Robinho etc.) Brazil's a sure bet for the gold

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Brazil is not going to the olympics, they were elminated by Paraguay.

[Benny_]

!! That's most disappointing, they would've been entertaining to watch anyway

[loner]

Originally posted by krel

Anyway, i've been hearing news about a loop-hole of some sort in the offside rule? Does anyone know anything about it, cause i can't seem to find any articles of it.

Well basically, it is more of an interpretation of the old offside rules which are quite vague. Southampton and Bolton then tried to use it to distract defenders. Basically, it is a play on the 'interference with play' rule. A player is only offside if he receives a ball in an offside position when ball is passed, or if he is standing in an offside position and interfering with the play. What is meant by 'interfering with play' was never clearly stated, and the new interpretations are not much better off either. Managers of both teams asked the players to stand in a offside position when a freekick is about to be taken. Then the players retreat back when it is taken. Once the ball is cleared and knocked back in, they are actually in onside positions. The controversial part is the first part. In the Southampton-Man Utd game, the players standing behind the defenders are on both flanks and isn't contributing to the attack. I haven't seen the Bolton game so I'm not sure if that is also the case. What I gathered from reports is that Bolton did nothing wrong, old rules or new rules, and the fact that Leicester conceded a goal is down to poor marking and Ian Walker's idiocy. After all, when 1 or 2 players are doing this play, they cannot take an active part in attack, meaning fewer players for defending team to mark.

Brazil won't care about little things like Olympics. And Milan would never let Kaka leave for such a tournament.

[krel]

Originally posted by loner
Well basically, it is more of an interpretation of the old offside rules which are quite vague. Southampton and Bolton then tried to use it to distract defenders. Basically, it is a play on the 'interference with play' rule. A player is only offside if he receives a ball in an offside position when ball is passed, or if he is standing in an offside position and interfering with the play. What is meant by 'interfering with play' was never clearly stated, and the new interpretations are not much better off either. Managers of both teams asked the players to stand in a offside position when a freekick is about to be taken. Then the players retreat back when it is taken. Once the ball is cleared and knocked back in, they are actually in onside positions. The controversial part is the first part. In the Southampton-Man Utd game, the players standing behind the defenders are on both flanks and isn't contributing to the attack. I haven't seen the Bolton game so I'm not sure if that is also the case. What I gathered from reports is that Bolton did nothing wrong, old rules or new rules, and the fact that Leicester conceded a goal is down to poor marking and Ian Walker's idiocy. After all, when 1 or 2 players are doing this play, they cannot take an active part in attack, meaning fewer players for defending team to mark.


But in the first place if a player is up there during an attacking free kick, then they must have an intention to disrupt play or at least contribute to the attack, or else they wouldn't be up there in the first place, qouldn't they? Surely there must be a reason those players are in an offside position during a free-kick, and even if they are not playing an active part they are interfering with play.

[Benny_]

I think krel's probably right.. on the other hand I don't know how distracting players just standing around offside could be. I mean if you're a proffessional footballer, surely people standing around in opposition coloured shirts shouldn't bother you that much.

[soundchazer]

Originally posted by loner
Brazil won't care about little things like Olympics. And Milan would never let Kaka leave for such a tournament.

Quite the contrary... the Olympics have been a thorn in the side of the Brazilians for a long time because NONE of their olympic teams have been able to aquire a gold medal. In fact, I was reading some Brazilian newspapers after the elimination, and let me tell you, it was not a pretty sight. If this is Brazilians not caring about the Olympics, then I wonder what would happen if the first team doesn't make it to the World Cup now that the previous champion doesn't get a free pass to it.



Regarding the offside rule:


During a free kick, if the ball remains untouched and the player in offside is nowhere near the ball, then it usually declared valid. Same thing when someone is making a long pass or a direct kick that ends up being a goal. Now... if for some reason the ball is deflected and that layer becomes part of the play, then the flag should be raised immediately and declared offside.

Now, some linemen (now called Assistant Referee or something like that), still use the old offside rule, where they raise the flag when someone is offsides regardless of whether he is part of the play or not. So what you can figure out when watching a match is whether the Assistant referee is chicken and uses the old rule, or is bold and uses the new rule, or even is he is blind and disregards the rule altogether.

Last but not least, if the ball touches any of the players from the opposing team and the ball falls near where the player in offiside is, the play is allowed to continue and the player is now regarded being in a legitimate position.

[loner]

soundchazer: Yes, that is Brazil not caring for the Olympics. Only newspapers are complaining. If Brazil can't qualify for the World Cup, the entire nation would go on protest and ask for the entire staff of the football association. But then again, that would never happen.

If Brazil really cared about the Olympics, they would field players such as Kaka, Diego, Robinho, Julio Baptista and Mancini. These players will overrun every Olympic team in the world, not to mention qualifiers. Yes, not winning does hurt the Brazilian pride a bit. But ask any Brazilian and they'll tell you that they care nire about winning a World Youth Championship or a Copa America than going for the Olympic gold.

krel: Here in lies the controversy. How do you define interference with play? The sight of opposing players running around in offside positions certainly unnerved the Ian Walker and resulted in his howler. Of course there is a reason why they are up there: simply to disrupt the opposing defenders. However, technically, they are not part of the attack. The ball is not played towards them, and the goalkeeper's vision is not blocked by them. So are they part of the attack? Yes. But are they interfering with the opponent's defensive play? Technically, and to the referees in those games, no. But mentally, there is an effect.

I believe FIFA need to clarify this rule a lot better.

[Benny_]

loner... on the Olympics, I think the 23s teams of Holland and Portugal just from Europe would give Brazil a run for their money..they both have pretty fantastic youth systems and have heaps of new talent coming out

the new Dutch breed.. (Van Der Vaart, Sneijder, Arjen, de Jong) will be playing?

Portugal- Ronaldo, Postiga, Quaresma.. others whose names escape me atm

Anyway, just saying it would've been a more interesting concept than you made it out to be

[soundchazer]

Originally posted by loner
If Brazil really cared about the Olympics, they would field players such as Kaka, Diego, Robinho, Julio Baptista and Mancini. These players will overrun every Olympic team in the world, not to mention qualifiers. Yes, not winning does hurt the Brazilian pride a bit. But ask any Brazilian and they'll tell you that they care nire about winning a World Youth Championship or a Copa America than going for the Olympic gold.

Pffft... Only Kaka is worth a dime. Every time I watch a match with Diego in it, he is either failing passes on on the floor because he lacks the strength to fend off defenders. Robinho and Diego did play... or were they? (they played awful). Julio Baptista and Kaka were not allowed to play by their respective clubs, but on the other hand, this team had guys that have played or are playing in Europe, plus some that have played the Copa Libertadores. I still believe you are downplaying the whole thing.

[PsychoSaiya-jin]

Anyone catch the Arsenal/Chelsea match?

It goes to show that you really can't buy your way to the championships.

[Benny_]

Originally posted by PsychoSaiya-jin
Anyone catch the Arsenal/Chelsea match?

It goes to show that you really can't buy your way to the championships.


Much as I hate Chelski, I think lack of cohesion remains the key problem. Buying such a huge load of spectcular players is sheer insanity. No player will be happy unless they play regularly, and to solve this problem Ranieri's changing the starting 11 every match. While this'll make the players happier, it'll only slow the gelling process. It's a catch-22 really.

And wtf is up with buying Scott Parker? I mean for crying out loud the Chelski midfield is great as it is, Parker's gonna be benchwarming for sure. The only thing it really achieves is damage Charlton's chances of making it into Champions League qualification.. which I'm not complaining about :D

[loner]

soundchazer: You must be pretty unlucky to catch Diego on all of his offdays. And most playmakers would be on the floor when vicious Paraguayan defenders go in on them, not to mention an 19 year-old. I can assure you that Diego is a brilliant potential who is just needing a bit more maturity.

Well, maybe I'm downplaying this tournament a bit. But still, if national sides take it seriously, they can certainly force the better European-based players to come.

As for the Roman Army, I despise them ever since they took Duff and left Rovers in a mess. Ranieri is doing a decent job already, but you can't buy a entirely new team and expect them to win the first season. Some of their transfers are also questionable. Veron barely sparkled in Man Utd, and what's up with buying Smertin and immediately loaning him to Pompey? And why are they buying so many mid-fielders? What they really do need is a real right winger. Gronkjaer is a bit inconsistent, and Parker, Geremi and Veron are not wingers. Right now, all their true threat comes from the left with Duff and Bridge.

On the other hand, I think Arsenal made a great move in signing Reyes. He is one of the best young player in the world, and the potential 20m fee paid by Arsenal do justify his potential.

[Benny_]

Wait.. remind me for a second, was the 20 mil for Reyes in Euros or Pounds? Oh well doesn't matter I guess. Wenger's doing the right thing in investing in youth, with luck (for Arsenal), he'll be like Henry and decide to stay on for many years yet. I prefer Jaoquin though

On a side note, is Reyes allowed to play ECL for Arsenal?

Good Chelski buys IMO

Defenders- any?

Midfield- Duff, Makelele..possibly Cole, but that remains to be seen.

Forwards- Mutu if any, but he's really better in the hole.. buying Crespo was Abramovich being extravagant, since Hasselbaink is a fairly similar sort of striker anyway +Gudjohnson (spelling?) is a good striker anyway

[krel]

The Latest FIFA world rankings:

http://www.fifa.com/en/rank/index.html

1. Brazil
2. France
3. Spain
4. Netherlands
5. Mexico

WTF MEXICO IS 5th ?!?!

6. Argentina
7. England
8. Czech Republic
9. Turkey
10. Italy

IMHO, Argentina is better than Mexico and Italy is better than Czech Rep. and Turkey. <_<

[loner]

Reyes and Joaquin are different players. Joaquin is a right winger, and Ljungberg is already doing a fine job there. Reyes can play behind the striker and also out of the left. He will replace Bergkamp, whose future is unfortunately limited. Reyes is the perfect support of Henry, and their partnership will make Arsenal even more formidable. To me, one Reyes is worth the countless addition at Chelsea.

The Fifa world ranking is crap. Italy, Argentina and England combined has 6 World Cups. How many Cups had Holland, Mexico and Spain won? None. Only Holland got the closest the Cup. Mexico and Spain never even got past the semis. As for Czech Republic, I do believe they are becoming a force, but no. 8 is a bit beyond them right now. And Turkey is in the decline (losing to Latvia?. Why are they above Italy, who is starting to regain their position as one of the best team in the world.

[Benny_]

The FIFA world ranking is purely based on who plays the most really. However on individual quality, Spain and Holland are in the top 5. Unfortunately as a team they're big big chokers. Turkey? Bah, they're going down. The Turkey semi in the 2002 WC was a false dawn for certain. They're an aging team without a good youth system. I guarantee you that they'll be lucky to make it past the 2nd round at best in the next WC

[soundchazer]

Originally posted by loner
The Fifa world ranking is crap. Italy, Argentina and England combined has 6 World Cups. How many Cups had Holland, Mexico and Spain won? None. Only Holland got the closest the Cup. Mexico and Spain never even got past the semis. As for Czech Republic, I do believe they are becoming a force, but no. 8 is a bit beyond them right now. And Turkey is in the decline (losing to Latvia?. Why are they above Italy, who is starting to regain their position as one of the best team in the world.

I can't say Mexico deserves the number 5 position, because that would be a lie to top all lies, but I do believe England is still living on the fumes from past glories. They won one World Cup, at home, with some localist refereeing. The best they have done since then is what? Semis in Italy 90.

That list puts a premium in consistency. Mexico has been pretty consistent as of late. Has been participating in every World Cup since 94, has always passed the first round, often being first in their group. They won their local equivalent to the Eurocup (the level of the competition is not as good, but they did manage to defeat Brazil twice in that tourney).

Do they deserve to be a top 15 team? Absolutely... but not number 5.

[krel]

Anyone notice that Palestine is in the list (138)? I thought countries other then Arab or Muslim countries did not recognize Palestine as a independant country, why are they on the list? And how can they be better than India? I thought India wasn't such a bad Asian football team. Wait a minute, Afghanistan is in the ranking too, i didn't know they had a football team. O_o

[Benny_]

Originally posted by krel
Anyone notice that Palestine is in the list (138)? I thought countries other then Arab or Muslim countries did not recognize Palestine as a independant country, why are they on the list? And how can they be better than India? I thought India wasn't such a bad Asian football team. Wait a minute, Afghanistan is in the ranking too, i didn't know they had a football team. O_o

It's complicated, but yeah, a fair few countries recognise Palestine as a country. *Struggles to remember Arab-Israeli history learnt last year.. fails*

[salamaru]

i dunno in what fifa makes those ranks...

[krel]

Originally posted by salamaru
i dunno in what fifa makes those ranks...

i think FIFA awards points based on the national team's performances in friendlies, competitions, etc. So the more games you play and win the more points the team is awarded. I'm not so sure though.

[loner]

Actually, a lot of national football teams on that list are not countries. England, Scotland, Wales, N. Ireland are all not independent countries. Nor are Hong Kong, Faroe Islands, Puerto Rico, Mayotte, Martinique or Guadeloupe(just to name a few). These places are all autonomous, and therefore have football sides that represent them at international level.

[RahXephon]

Leeds United for life!

Tied ManUre today, Smudger off the marks with the header past Howard!

I think Leeds still have a chance of survival, they are much better then the teams above them, luck is just not with them lately.

Young Scott Carson held his own today, saving a deflected Silvestre shot at the beginning of the game. I remember Paul Robinson's first start, it was against Chelsea and the game was 0-0, man of the match. This could be Carson's coming out game.

Next week Liverpool for us, Viduka I hope comes back soon and Paul Robinson.

[salamaru]

hey what do you think about chealsea vs arsenal, pretty boring isn´t it?

[Gleylancer]

Hum...a soccer thread? I've been wanting to do this a long time...
Corinthians! Corinthians! Corinthians!
Timão, eo! Timão, eo! Timão, eo!

I could go on and on, and on, and on....

[Benny_]

bahahahaha Man U 1 - 1 Leeds

Anyway.. superb effort by Kaka in the Milan Derby to help them come back from 2 down to win 3-2. He's gonna be the biggest thing in soccer in a couple of years for sure

[Yurika Star]

Originally posted by loner
soundchazer: Yes, that is Brazil not caring for the Olympics. Only newspapers are complaining.
/me points to rise in Brazilian suicide rate after the 94 and 98 world cup finals.

And one thing that has baffled me for many years is the czech republics ranking, i mean they never do to much. A few eyars ago they were ranked third and had been for quite some time.

And as the rankings are only based on points received through games played and cups won you can take them with a pinch of salt; yes there is some coleration between ranking and the team, but it is not to accurate.

Chelsea seem out of the title race from where i sit, they may fight for a second place, depending on performances, but thats about all. I hope this doesn;t effect there Champions League opportunities, that is the competition i think they have the most chance in this season, a vastly experienced European team. I said they wouldn;t win the league this season, before it started, due to there lack of experience as a team, and experience in English football from the team, next year when they've geled we'll see.

P.s. I hate Charlton ^_^

[loner]

I'm not too sure about Chelsea's Champ League' chances. It is better than Arsenal's or Man Utd's IMO, but still, compare their players to those of Juve, Real Madrid and AC Milan, they are still not up there. The likes of Makelele, Crespo, Desailly and Veron may be suited for this competition, but I don't recall Mutu, Joe Cole, Parker, Duff, Glen Johnson, Geremi, Lampard, Gallas, Bridge and Terry playing many Champ League games.

P.S. Like Yurika, I want to fill the Valley with nuclear waste.

[Benny_]

Um.. someone explain to me why the hostile sentiments towards Charlton?

Not that I'm really a fan myself.. seeing as they're competing with Liverpool for that last ECL spot

[loner]

Check the scoreline and see who they beat last night.

[Benny_]

Oh right Rovers is your team.. they're having a pretty lousy season as well though, gotta be hating a lot of ohter teams.. Liverpool included if you're gonna hate Charlton

Liverpool 0-1 Pompey :( Damn Liverpool and our inconsistent form

[The Macaque]

Originally posted by Benny_
Liverpool 0-1 Pompey :( Damn Liverpool and our inconsistent form
Which will hopefully continue for a long while. As an Evertonian, I'm sad to see Toffees fighting once again for a mere mid-table position. The only highlight of the season so far has been the unpredicted 0-0 against Pool. That and the fact that Big Dunc has been able to play a few matches, and has actually scored a few too!

Oh and Yuri, what's so strange about the Czechs being high up on the ranking? They play some of the best footy in Europe. Could beat any team in the world on a good day.

As much I want to see Chelsea loose their every game, for the way they've treated my old classmate Forssell, I still don't think you need that much Champions League experience to actually succeed in the competition. That kind of experience is way overrated. Sure sure, Real has a strong team. All I'm saying is, with players like that they'd succeed without playing a single european match before anyway.

[loner]

Yes, I hate quite a lot of teams this season. And yes, I don't appreciate Liverpool beating us in league and Cup. But since they are suffering just as we are, I guess I should just give them a break.

The Czechs do have a great team right now. They've got a brilliant young goalkeeper, a solid defense, the perfect playmaker in Nedved and a deadly striking partnership in Koller and Baros. However, that doesn't mean that they should get such high a rating. They may be a team on the rise, but they still haven't achieved much yet, at least compare to the teams below them.

Macaque: Compare Chelsea with say, AC Milan. You can see that while the players Chelsea have are very good players, they're still missing a few notches compared with those of Milan.

P.S. Forssell was your classmate? Wasn't he born in Germany? Well anyways, he's having an excellent season at Birmingham. He is a deadly striker IMO. Still a bit raw, but certainly has the potential to overtake the likes of say, Crespo and Gudjonsson.

[The Macaque]

Originally posted by loner
Macaque: Compare Chelsea with say, AC Milan. You can see that while the players Chelsea have are very good players, they're still missing a few notches compared with those of Milan.

P.S. Forssell was your classmate? Wasn't he born in Germany? Well anyways, he's having an excellent season at Birmingham. He is a deadly striker IMO. Still a bit raw, but certainly has the potential to overtake the likes of say, Crespo and Gudjonsson.
With players who possess worldclass talent, it's very difficult to say who's stronger than the other one. Even if the Milan players do have a lot more experience in tough euro matches, it's not to say that they couldn't loose out to a team like Chelsea. All the CFC players have top notch skills, and could surpirse any big team in the UCL.

Oh, and yes, Miklu was born in Germany, moved to Finland at a very young age, and went to the same uper secondary (middle school) as I did. I think all Finns would like to see him get out of Chelsea (a.k.a the club of broken promises), and permanently move to a club where he could recieve the respect, and the honest chance of showing his skills, that he deserves.

[Yurika Star]

Originally posted by Benny_
Oh right Rovers is your team.. they're having a pretty lousy season as well though, gotta be hating a lot of ohter teams.. Liverpool included if you're gonna hate Charlton

Ohh I hate alot of teams, I'm full of hate.

And if stuff doesn't happenw ith Chelsea I shall be shocked. By happen i mean win shit. And Duff is the flair of the team :( They kinda suck when he aint there.

[Benny_]

Hmm.. Champions League Scores for Tuesday..

Sparta Prague 0-0 Milan ...not having seen this match I can't really comment, but surely Milan should've won based on quality alone..

Celta Vigo 2-3 Arsenal- One away goal difference to Arsenal should see them through to the next round provided they don't choke at home again ala Inter

Bayern Munich 1-1 Real Madrid- LOL @ Oliver Kahn, Madrid will smack'em at home

Lokomotive Moscow 2-1 Monaco- A surprise, but I don't know enough about Russian or French soccer to care. I think Monaco will bounce back in the 2nd leg though

Wednesday's games:

FC Porto vs Manchester United: Despite a run of bad form for Utd, I think they should still be able to get away with a close win..I'd put Saha on the bench and revert to Van Nistelrooy playing up front with Scholes in the hole.. then again no great loss if they lose :)

Deportivo La Caruña vs Juventus: 3rd in La Liga vs 3rd in Serie A should provide the most interesting of Wednesday's fixtures, I predict a draw followed by a win at Juve in the 2nd leg

Sociedad vs Lyon: Meh.. Sociedad is having a lousy season compared to last year, they're far from relagation (unlike Celta) and far from Europe, while Lyon are I THINK still challenging for the league victory.. still Celta didn't perform too badly against Arsenal, so maybe we can expect surprises from Sociedad as well

Stuttgart vs Chelsea: Stuttgart to win at home I think, but I wouldn't mind seeing Chelsea win though, at least Mutu's entertaining on a good day

[loner]

The Lokomotiv-Monaco and Sparta Prague-Milan scores are perfectly normal. The temperatures in Prague and Moscow are freezing. As for Kahn....HAHA. TAKE THAT SUCKER.

Sorry but I just really despise Bayern Munich. But even I feel a bit sorry for them, since they played exceptionally well.

My takes on today's games:
Depor vs Juve: Draw, with Juve getting the all-important away goal(s). Then another draw at Turin, but Juve will somehow scrape through.

Porto vs. Man Utd: Man Utd are without their best defenders, but Porto are without their best strikers. If Roy Keane can keep Deco silent, then Man Utd can win.

Sociedad vs. Lyon: Both teams capable are unpredictable. Both look good at some point in this season. Sociedad were excellent when they beat Real Madrid at home, and Lyon truly played well they beat Bayern at Munich. But I still think Lyon will overpower Sociedad.

Stuttgart vs Chelsea: Stuttgart looking dire now. Losing to hapless Hertha and Kaiserslautern? While Chelsea is also in a slump of some sort, I think they will win.

[Benny_]

Wow..

Porto 2-1 Man Utd .....I must admit even as a Liverpool fan I was expecting at least a draw.... when are Gary Neville and Mikael Silvestre returning again?

The other slightly surprising thing was that Depor took a 1-0 advantage over Juve, but I really expect Juve to cancel it out at Turin and still come away with it.. but being a Milan fan.. meh

Chelsea and Lyon both won 1-0 thanks to some own goals

[loner]

Like I said, Man Utd can contain Porto if they can cancel out their midfield. They didn't do that. They let talented players like Deco, Carlos Alberto and Alenitchev run them over, and they got what they deserved. Benni McCarthy is a really inconsistent striker, which is why I was a bit reserved about their strikeforce before this game. Unfortunately for Man Utd, they caught him on his good day. And that header was excellent, considering the fact that both Neville and Brown are taller than him (why didn't they jump?)

Gary did play in this game. He is however suspended for 3 more games in the Premiership. Silvestre is out for 3 weeks.

[xav]

chelsea vs stuttgart game was boring, and i don't remember seeing mutu play.
gudjohnsan didn't have a good game imo, I would have brought heskey on earlier, but maybe they were saving him for epl.

renari has to provide something from the amount of money put in the team. i don't know if i would want to be in his shoes

[Benny_]

Originally posted by xav
chelsea vs stuttgart game was boring, and i don't remember seeing mutu play.
gudjohnsan didn't have a good game imo, I would have brought heskey on earlier, but maybe they were saving him for epl.

renari has to provide something from the amount of money put in the team. i don't know if i would want to be in his shoes

Eh? Heskey was a Liverpool man last time I checked :P A damn lousy Liverpool man too, maybe you meant Hasselbaink?

Anyway, Liverpool 2-0 Levski Go the Reds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok so it was only a so-so win against a team less than reknowned in Europe, but this is the only competition we still have a chance at ! :D

[loner]

Well, Liverpool may find it hard to win. Barcalona is also taking this seriously, since it is their last chance at silverware as well. Valencia and Roma may not be taking this seriously right now, but if they do get to the quarters or semis, they may start to do so. And with Liverpool's current form, I'm not sure if they can take on any of them. And then there is Celtic. I'm sure no Liverpool fan had forgot about their last meeting with Celtic.

[Benny_]

yeah yeah I'm well aware of that :P Can't blame me for hoping. I'm fairly certain Liverpool would go down to both Roma and Valencia atm, Barca's inconsistent despite their recent good fortune, Celtic I'm a little more worried about considering how well they've gone in the league

[krel]

IMHO it's just not Liverpool's season to win the UEFA cup, too many good teams, teams that could be in the Champions League, that are real contenders for the cup. Liverpool will find them tough to beat, i think pool fans will have to wait for next season maybe to see pool win a cup. Hopefully Liverpool will be in the CL next season.

**crosses fingers**

[salamaru]

hey guys what do you think about Real Madrid?...

[soundchazer]

Originally posted by salamaru
hey guys what do you think about Real Madrid?...

for that many star players, their level of play as a team is mediocre.

[Benny_]

Originally posted by salamaru
hey guys what do you think about Real Madrid?...

I think they're going overboard with the attacking player buying. If you follow soccer closely, you'd have noticed that earlier this year Real president Florentino Perez's main targets for this year's galactico are Henry (striker), Van Nistelrooy (striker) and Totti (attacking midfield/striker). With a dream strike force of Raul and Ronaldo, someone's gonna end up a very unhappy star, as I highly doubt they'd be able to play all 3 strikers at once. Totti (who is more suited to the hole IMO) is a great playmaker and would've no doubt been a future replacement for Zidane. However considering the fact that Zidane just signed an extension of his contract till 2006 (correct me if I'm wrong), I don't see him fitting in any time soon either.

On the other hand, they haven't a single world class defender. That is of course, unless you really believe Carlos and Salgado are defenders. Personally though, I think they spend a lot more time on the other side of the field than defending. In the centre they've got Raul Bravo and ... Pavon? Not too certain on this, but they do need badly to buy a new world class defender. Jaap Stam is looking to leave Lazio for Milan, but Real probably has more resources at their disposal (if they don't go for one of the 3 galacticos mentioned above).

So basically what you have with Real is a team bursting at the seams with attacking talent, and just bursting in defence. If Perez had any sense at all, and dropped the idea that buying a couple of defenders shows 'weakness', you'd have an unstoppable team in Spain and Europe. Not that it'd happen.

[soundchazer]

Originally posted by Benny_
Jaap Stam is looking to leave Barca for Milan, but Real probably has more resources at their disposal (if they don't go for one of the 3 galacticos mentioned above).

Jaap Stam = Severely overrated. Rafael Marquez is a much better defender, which is why has become a first team player and starts every game for the club. In fact, Real Madrid wanted to bring this guy over to the club, but couldn't because he had the same style of play as Fernando Hierro, and therefore, the club could not accomodate him... and to think the guy is only 24 years old.

[Benny_]

Other than his drug problems and impending age, there's nothing wrong with Stam. Marquez only signed with Barca last year, so wanting to nab him from Barca would be like trying to buy Kaka from Milan. Also I'm pretty sure he was signed after Real already let Hierro go because of his age. No, the main problem isn't which defender to sign, it's simply to sign a decent defender.

However if Madrid was to become an all conquering force because of an all round spectacular team, they'd lose what was left of their romance. At least with an all out attack 0 defence team, there's some cavalier style there to be enjoyed. Besides, it's the Spanish way.

BTW I earlier accidentally said Stam was leaving Barca, actually he's leaving Lazio, damn memory. If Real was to sign a defender from Spain, Puyol is the only one who's really world class

[loner]

I think they are a bunch of rich bastards who only knows how to attack. Their defence is absolutely horrible, with two full-backs with bad positional sense and two central defenders who are not even central defenders by trade. I especially detest their one-star-a-season policy, and their over-inflated ego. I also hate how referees always give them dodgy penalty (if Raul keeps on getting tripped by pieces of grass, they need to put him on life support). I hope they will win nothing this season, or next season....hell, I hope they are relegated by the end of this decade.

[Benny_]

Wishful thinking loner :P Although I do agree on Raul and his penalties, I swear it didn't happen before this season, frequently anyway. I think it's because he's not really in good form and wants to get a few goals from penalties or something.. but then again Ronaldo takes all the penalties, so that logic can't be right

ahahaha.. Man U drops 2 more points at Fulham to fall 9 behind Arsenal and the title chase is over. On another note, Saha scored for them against the club he so cruely ditched. He's been impressive so far as a player if not a person

[loner]

Like you, I would like to dream sometimes as well. However, with the defence that they've got, I doubt they can win anything this season. And if Florentino Perez is stupid enough to buy someone like Totti or Owen, who they absolutely have no need for, instead of a good defender, then they won't win anything next season.

Can people just give Saha a rest? Yes, maybe he wasn't so grateful to the Fulham fans. But he is in the form of his life, and to play for Man Utd is something that he cannot resist. This is a once in a lifetime chance, and if he doesn't go now, he may never have such a chance again. People overrate club loyalty too much. The only way a player like Saha can improve is to move to a bigger club and play for them. He is selfish, but he's got to make his own decisions, not let other people tell him what to do.

[Benny_]

Yes.. I can see the other side of the argument on Saha's behalf as well. The problem was that he caused such a big fuss and totally disrupted fulham's campaign (not that I care much for them). I'm fairly certain Fergie would've still been in market for striker to partner Van Tap-in, he seems to have a touch of the Madrid Disease these days. Afterall, he did sign Saha when Forlan was in terrific scoring form

[BlueBlaze]

I'm brazilian.......so yeah, I love soccer. While I lived in the US, I played in the school's team.
I'll never forget those days.......

[Benny_]

Yeah.. my fav player currently is Brazilian.. Kaka is the man

[loner]

And we all know how inconsistent Forlan is. He can be prolific in one moment, and then absolutely dreadful in another. As you can see, he stank in his last game.

I have mixed feelings about Brazilians. Players like Rivaldo get on my nerves a lot of times, for his selfishness with the ball and lack of sportsmanship. Their defenders=strikers approach also ticks me off. And Fat Ronnie always manages to bring out the worse in me. But on the other hand, I admire Kaka, Deco, Juninho and Ronaldinho for their mesmerising skills, flair and excellent passing. So while I prefer Argentina more, I do like to watch them play.

[Benny_]

hehe... but Deco belongs to Portugal now.. and why in the world would you prefer Argentina, the only Argentine I'm a fan of atm is Aimar

[loner]

I prefer Argentina because they are a better team overall. Unlike Brazil, who uses defenders like Roque Junior, who don't know how to defend, and Lucio, Roberto Carlos and Cafu, who aren't defenders at all, Argentina have defenders who really know how to defend. Ayala and Samuel are two of the best central defenders in the world. In mid-field, Argentina can also match Brazil. While Veron is fading, Aimar (he's my favorite player, btw) and D'Alessandro are in the same league as Kaka and Ronaldinho. They also have some great strikers in Saviola, Tevez and Cavenaghi, who all can match Ronaldo technically. The only problem with the team is that they are coached by Bielsa, who obviously don't know who his best players are and how to use them. Why he is insisting on calling up Veron, Kily Gonzalez and Jose Chamot is beyond me.

And I'm a River Plate fan.

Yes Deco is Portuguese now. He shouldn't have been overlooked. He is a lot better than Rivaldo now. Scolari was shrewd in calling him up for Portugal. Now they have a serious chance of winning.

[Benny_]

Bah.. D'Alessandro isn't in the same league as Kaka or Ronaldino, they're the 2 most entertaining players to watch atm. Rivaldo is a little over the hill I guess, but with Ronaldihno in the side he played more as a striker anyway, while Deco is attacking midfield like Kaka and Ronaldihno, so I fancy he wouldn't make the side anyway.

As for Portugal's chances in Euro 2004 (I assume that's what you meant)... Portugal's had plenty of talent for years and years. They've got one of the most creative midfields in the world (Figo and Rui Costa leading the way for the old generation), and with the addition of Deco, Ronaldo and Quaresma, theoretically they shouldn't fear anyone. However they've been the biggest chokers next to Spain in big tournaments, so I'd expect nothing of them. France to win Euro 2004 for certain.

[loner]

I think the addition of new faces is not the only improvement of Portugal after their disastrous World Cup. They have Scolari as their new coach, and he is IMO one of the best in the business. He can shake off the complacency that was evident in their doomed trip in South Korea. Also, another important reason why they failed last time was their defence. Veterans like Jorge Costa, Abel Xavier, and Fernando Couto have now been replaced by a strong backline filled with exciting Porto players. Whether that is enough to contain the likes of Henry, Raul or Del Piero is up for debate, but they certainly aren't the team that choked magnificently in 2002. And of course they are at home. Never underestimate the importance of home advantage. The only major trophies France had won in recent memories are at home or close to home. South Korea and Japan also managed to do extremely well in the World Cup because of home support. Portugal may not be favorites, but I expect them be a dark horse.

And don't forget the France choked even worse last time. Chances of that happening again are not high, but if Zidane or Vieira or Henry get injured....you never know. Plus, there's still Italy to contend with.

Maybe I exaggerated a bit about D'Alessandro, but he does have the potential to match them. Plus, Kaka's not the complete package at the present either. There's still a lot of time for both to grow.

[Benny_]

Yep I'm tipping another France/Italy final

In the meantime, all the big teams managed to get through to the next round of the UEFA cup, with the except of Galatasaray and Parma (they weren't ever big.. but bigger than their opponents). That leaves Liverpool with tough task considering that any of: Newcastle, Valencia, Roma, Barcelona, Celtic, PSV, Auxerre and maybe even Inter will be far more challenging that the minnows they've had to contend with so far. I'm personally hoping they'll get a draw against Inter and knock them out since I'm more of a Milan fan. Also they're not ready to face up to most of the bigger teams

[krel]

Probably only Inter, Valencia or Barca have a realistic chance of winning the UEFA, Liverpool are bloody inconsistent and Newcastle i think have an outside chacne of winning it, although that seems unlikely.

Teams left:
Barcelona, Gençlerbirligi, Benfica, Marseille, Celtic, PSV, Bordeaux, Valencia, Villarreal, Club Brugge, Internazionale, Liverpool :D, Mallorca, Roma, Auxerre and Newcastle.

[Benny_]

Inter? Hah! They've lost 3 on the trot in Serie A and had 2 unconvincing draws against a Ligue 1 Team that isn't Monaco, so I wouldn't bet a cent on them winning anything this season. Valencia, Roma and Barca.

Draws are out, Liverpool have a very decent draw.

4th Round

Liverpool v Marseille

QF

Liverpool or Marseille v Inter Milan or Benfica

SF

Auxerre/PSV/Newcastle/Mallorca v Liverpool/Marseille/Inter/Benfica

Considering the fact that Liverpool are on the other side of the draw to all 3 of the teams afore mentioned, I think it's a very decent draw. At the moment I'd tip Liverpool to beat Marseille and Inter (they should still be able to take Benfica.. maybe) to go to the SFs with luck. There it'd get interesting, because I think Newcastle will be their opponents in SF, and Newcastle will also be playing Liverpool in the last EPL match of the season, probably for the 4th ECL spot. Should be a very interesting contest with Newcastle in great form and all Liverpool players back (and Baros in sensational form as well).

On the other hand Liverpool ARE inconsistent, and on a bad day any of Marseille, Inter or Newcastle can take'em apart.. hoping there won't be many of them.

[krel]

Draw for fourth round:
Celtic v Barcelona
Genclerbirligi v Valencia
Bordeaux v Club Brugge
Newcastle United v Mallorca
Auxerre v PSV Eindhoven
Internazionale v Benfica
Liverpool v Marseille
Villarreal v Roma

Bad luck Celtic, they are going to find it hard to win against a team with more experience playing euro games, esp in the CL.

My predictions:

Celtic v Barcelona
barca win
Genclerbirligi v Valencia
Valencia win
Bordeaux v Club Brugge
no idea???
Newcastle United v Mallorca
Newcastle win
Auxerre v PSV Eindhoven
PSV win
Internazionale v Benfica
Inter win
Liverpool v Marseille
Liverpool win
Villarreal v Roma
Roma win

[Benny_]

Yep I agree, Celtic are screwed. What ever happened to Kluivert though? I checked their team in their last UEFA cup round and found that he wasn't even on the bench. Surely there's still a place for him to partner Saviola at least. I think Inter will struggle against Benfica but just pull through in the end. With Lazio in good form, they almost certainly will miss out on CL next season, and they are too far off the pace to challenge for the Serie A. So UEFA cup is the only chance they've got.. similar to Liverpool really, but I'd like to think we're a little less pathetic than they are. Incidentally, has anyone noticed that Zacheronni loooks kinda like Gerard Houllier? Ironic

[krel]

Liverpool's still got a realistic chance of getting a CL spot don't they? Anyway i think Lazio are has-beens...which people could also say of Liverpool. :(

Maybe Kluivert is injured or something...i don't know. But Celtic do have a good chance of winning, provided they are on form and have a full strength team.

Newcastle vs Mallorca...i'm not so sure anymore. Newcastle aren't really that great in europe, and didn't they just win their last uefa cup match 1-0 or something? But imho, if Newcastle keeps on going the way it does now it could be a regular european team and premier league title contender in a couple of seasons.

[Benny_]

Lazio are something like 6 points ahead of Inter in the Serie A, so Inter are the real has beens. Celtic's in good form, but in terms of European experience and overall squad quality, they've got nothing on Barca, so I'd expect them to go down. Liverpool do still have a realistic chance of making CL provided they win agaisnt Newcastle in the last League match of the season, and also their remaining matches against Birmingham and Charlton if they still have matches against them. Then again who knows, maybe we'll have one of our frequent bad weeks and go down to Leicester or someone crap.

[loner]

Kluivert is injured. But I'd say Barca is better without him. He's on such a terrible form that his presence can bother all other Barca players. And they are planning to get rid of him anyways. Saviola is having a wonderful streak right now in La Liga, and with Ronaldinho supporting him they look awfully strong.

Inter is the hellhole of football. They manage to turn great players to a bunch of sorry looking losers overnight. Conceicao, Cannavaro, Recoba, Van der Meyde, Crespo, Morfeo, Brechet, Stankovic, Coco, Almeyda, Lamouchi.........even Vieri to a certain extent. They all were considered the best players in Europe before they went to Inter. Now, they look like shadows of their great days. I never get why anybody would like to go to Inter. As for Zaccherroni, he is worshipper of 3-4-3 formation that doesn't work for a team like Inter. It makes them look unbalanced and inconsistent. One day they can thrash a team 6-0, next day they lose to Modena or Empoli.

Lazio....is in decline from their great days, yes. But what do you expect from a side that's bankrupt? I think they are doing an admirable job holding on to 4th position. They are not in a good form now in any sense, but they are better than their main contenders, Inter and Parma.

And Newcastle vs. Mallorca is by no means a fixed result already. Mallorca is probably the craziest side in football. They consistently lost to sides such as Albacete and Espanyol, yet they are also the last side to win in Bernabeu (5-1). I still think Newcastle should win, but I won't be surprised if they somehow lost.

[Benny_]

Yes.. that's a good observation about Barca's performances without Kluivert. Come to think of it they did seem to start turning the corner after he got injured. He's still got a couple of decent years left in him so it'd be interesting to see what sort of an impact he'll make where he next goes.

Inter..they're playing worse under Zaccherroni than they did before, and I can't see Zaccherroni sticking around for much longer. So far this season he's managed to get Inter knocked out of the CL, then put them in grave doubt for qualification for the CL next season. Van der Meyde made a mistake coming to Inter for certain. While his level talent is probably comparable to the other Dutch youngsters like Kezman, Sneijder and maybe even Van der Vaart or Robben, he's just not going to develop at Inter. Witht he influence of so many great players at Chelsea for Robben, Man Utd for Kezman (if indeed Man Utd, and undoubtedly other great clubs for Van der Vaart and Sneijder as well. All good players leave Ajax sooner or later.

[loner]

I think all of Inter's problems goes back to their former chairman Moratti. He doesn't know what the club's goals are, and more importantly, lacks patience for coaches and players alike. He switch managers often just because there's a coach with a better record is available, not caring about what this will do to the stability and morale of the team. And each year, he buys a whole stock of talented players, only to throw them away again next year. Look at the players they bought last year. Crespo and Morfeo had already moved to other clubs, while Cannavaro, Coco and Almeyda are all rumoured to move to pastures new this summer. Meanwhile, he bought another 11 players, of which only 2 are regular starters. He had destroyed a club with a lot of potential. I believe Inter were lucky to get rid of this guy.

Zaccherroni is an idiot. He doesn't know that to succeed in the Italian league, you have to think defence first. With Cuper in charge, at least Inter are a sound defensively. They don't know how to score, but the opponent often don't know how to score against them either. Now teams like Brescia can score 3 against them.

Btw, anyone paid attention to the Qatar affair? Qatar seems to be asking every Brazilian and French that had not been called up by their national teams to play for them, regardless of the fact that none of them ever lived in Qatar. Qatar simply give them an obscene amount of money and a Qatar passport, and they have become 'Qataris'. Right now, Werder Bremen's striker Ailton (top scorer of Germany with 20 goals right now) and Dortmund leftback Dede have agreed to play for them, while 4 other French players have been approached. I believe that this is ridiculous. Players in a national side should be able to identify with their country. Now countries like Qatar are making national sides look like clubs. If this thing is allowed to continue, what is the point of having international tournaments?

[Benny_]

Serious? That's such total BS it's not funny. National football should have absolutely no correlation with how club football is run. You can't just go around and buy all the players you want to be a good team. Then again it's pretty silly a scheme. If China or Australia somehow tried the same thing and bought the AC Milan team to be the Australianor Chinese team, I'd feel so little connection to them I wouldn't bother. It'd defeat the purpose of a national team.
Besides clearly Ailton is a hack and a scumbag. What kind of a self respecting player would run on to a field wearing colours of another country for cash. Ugh.. the mere thought makes me sick

[loner]

Yes Ailton is a scumbag. He showed how much of a scumbag he agreed to join Schalke next year because they presented him with more money than Werder. And no doubt money is a big factor here (I believe Qatar give him a million euros or something), though he did say something about wanting to play on the international stage and never getting that chance with Brazil.

I don't think it is possible to buy the entire AC team since most of them are already internationals with their own countries, or will be internationals in the forseeable future. Cristian Brocchi might be interested though...

Apparently Qatar had been doing things that are similar to this for quite a long time. A lot of Iraqis, Iranians and Emirates were neutralized as Qataris, and a Senegalese had also played for them. But at least these players had been playing in Qatar. I seriously doubt that Ailton and Dede had ever been to Qatar before, except perhaps for holiday or training camps.

[Benny_]

In the meantime Arsenal and Man U both went through to the next round of the FA cup on the weekend against Portsmouth and Fulham respectively. Arsenal looked especially convincing in their 5-1 win, Henry and Ljunberg bagging a brace a piece. It looks like this year's FA cup final could be a far more interesting affair provided that Arsenal aren't drawn against Man Utd in the semis.

Serie A matches over the weekend saw Milan and Roma both win comfortably against Sampdoria and Inter, Inter going down 4-1 thanks to another fantastic game from Cassano.. he's the future of Italian football for certain. Meanwhile Juve once again proved their cheating prowess, coming up with 2 goals which should've been disallowed and a legal goal against Brescia, who were leading 2-0 at half time. They've had a point to prove with Raul getting controversial penalties for Madrid recently I guess, and now truly noone can dispute their infamy... well except for those Juve fans, but surely they've gotta have a guilty conscience when their team relies on cheating to win

[loner]

Meanwhile, the Lazio game got called off.....

Let's give Juve a break, since Roma and Milan ain't so clean themselves either. Milan with their Berlusconi backing means that nobody will ever check out their increasingly unhealthy financial state. And Roma should be playing in Serie C right now, if not for those fake financial documents that they come up with. The more I watch them play, the more I grow to hate them. At least we had the guts to tell the world we're bankrupt....

btw, I'm a Lazio fan...

Both Ronaldo and Raul are injured, while Roberto Carlos is suspended. I guess Bayern have a good chance of beating Real now, even though I hate both teams with passion.

As for the FA Cup, it better not be Arsenal again...Though from the ways things are going, it should be.....

[Benny_]

No big clubs with history and tradition and trophies ever have to worry about their financial state. Madrid's been close to bankrupcy so many times it's not funny, but it's not like financial institutions aren't going to support the great Real Madrid. If they collapsed after all, it'd be a travesty. Milan and Roma don't cheat on the field, which is my main beef with Juve.

I wasn't aware Raul was injured as well, but that would put Madrid in a bit of strife. Then on the other hand Portillo and Solari are pretty decent strikers, and with a midfield like Madrid's, should still have enough firepower to get them through. Of more interest to me is how Man U will fare against Porto. I think this time Man U are gone. Such is the lacking in their defense that Giggs played at leftback for a while against Fulham in the FA cup. Maybe against a middle of the table Premiership side that's ok, but I think they'll really struggle against Porto. Porto to win 2-0. In other matches, Arsenal to win 2-0 at home to Celta, Real to take the tie 3-2 on aggregate after a 2-1 win against Bayern Munich. Juve to cheat, and who knows, win 3-0 against Depor in the return match at Turin. Milan to win 2-0 at home to Dynamo. Chelsea should win at home also

[loner]

*cough**cough* Roma don't cheat on the pitch? Totti falls down so easily it's not funny. Plus, dodgy penalties and offside goals are common things in Italy. If not for them, most of the scores from Italy would be 0-0's. Juve don't cheat every game, you know. They were definitely the best side in the world last year. The way they beat Real Madrid was truly exceptional, and if they had Nedved for the final, Milan would most likely lose.

The thing you mentioned is exactly my main beef with clubs like Real Madrid. They always gets away with these things because of corruption, and things like this really shows a bad image for football. Why should Roma and Real Madrid have more rights than, say, Leicester City or Fiorentina? Nobody thought it was a travesty when Fiorentina went to Seria C except for their fans. So isn't the favorable treatment of Roma (and yes, Lazio...) unfair? Plus, Real Madrid may have the financial institutions to support their stupid galactico shopping spree, but Roma is supported by fake bank documents. Without those, how can they buy Chivu and Dacourt to complete their team?

Man Utd's backline will be improved for this game, with Gary Neville and Sylvestre coming back. Still, Phil Neville is no Roy Keane. I think Porto will salvage a 1-1 draw and go through, but I won't be surprised if Man Utd came through in the end. Solari is in good form, but Portillo have been eating dust on the bench for too long to pick up his scoring boots this soon. With Roberto Carlos suspended as well, their already weak backline will be even weaker. They were unconvincing against Santander. But because of home advantage, I'd say 1-1 would be the score. I don't have any idea what's going to happen beyond that. Arsenal to sweep Celta 3-0, Juve come back to win 3-1 against Depor, Milan win 1-0 against Sparta Prague (not Dinamo....they are dead a long time ago, in the UEFA Cup) by a Kaka strike (long shot), Lyon beat Sociedad 2-0 and finally, Chelsea beat Stuttgart 2-0.

P.S. Seeing Keith Gillespie in jail makes me glad that Blackburn got rid of him in the summer.

[Benny_]

Well Man U are out after another damn lousy offside decision by a linesman. Wasn't even ambiguous, Scholes was onside by about a metre and had the goal disallowed. Aside from that Porto also didn't play a particularly clean game, which the referee seemed rather lenient on. Rugby tackles from behind weren't yellow carded and the sort of stamping that got Keane sent off 2 weeks ago only received a yellow card. Damn.. sounding like an Man Utd fan, I'm not really, but the refereeing in this match was pretty lousy. Also I'd just like to take a moment to laugh at Juve....hahahahahaha..ah.. but all credit to Pandiani's nicely struck goal.

[loner]

Woeful performance by the linesmen, but hey, I got the score right, complete with the Porto salvaging the draw part. Seriously, Porto played better football. They controlled the tempo of the game for most of the time. Their passing was affected by the poor pitch, but still managed to pinpoint their short and long passes perfectly most of the time. I thought United's defence weren't too bad this game, but typical of them to let Costinha in at the death.

As for Juve, well, they were unlucky since most of their squad is injured. Del Piero getting hurt immediately didn't help matters. But woeful defending from Montero.

[Benny_]

Well.. Man Utd's only got the FA Cup to play for now, the semi should be an interesting contest. It's funny that Fergie says they'll still be fighting for to win the premiership though, somehow I doubt it'll happen. Meanwhile with both Arsenal and Man Utd sure to qualify for the UCL again next year, the runner's up will get the UEFA cup spot.. which'll go to either Sunderland, or the winner of the contest between Milwall and Tranmere. Milwall in Europe, hilarious.

[krel]

Champions League Results:
Porto 3-2 Manchester United
Chelsea 1-0 Stuttgart.
scores are the aggregate of boths legs.

Seems like the only English teams in the CL are Arsenal and Chelsea, whom i don't think can go far. Arsenal, however, have the potential to make this season a VERY memorable one, if they win the CL, PL and FA cup.

Poor Man U though they got one goal disallowed for offside when Scholes was actually onside.

Juventus is also knocked out, what a dissapointment for the team that reached last year's final. It will be interesting to see the Real-Bayern match though, i'm tipping Bayern to win with Ronaldo out of the match.

March 11 UEFA cup fixtures:
Celtic v Barca (i'm hoping Celtic will provide a good result :))
Liverpool v Marseille (Go Liverpool!)
Newcastle v Mallorca

[Benny_]

Real Madrid 1-0 Bayern Munchen 2-1 Aggregate
AC Milan 4-1 Sparta Prague 4-1 Aggregate
Arsenal 2-0 Celta Vigo 5-2 Aggregate
Monaco 1-0 Lokomotiv Moscow 2-2 Aggregate- Monaco advances on away goals rule

Few surprises here, perhaps the only one being that Raul did actually end up playing. Also it's notable that I think this is either Arsenal's 1st or 2nd time in the UCL quarters, maybe they've turned a corner.

Other than the shock losses of Juve and Man U, most of the favourites went through and the quarters should be relatively interesting. The remaining teams are:

Chelsea, Porto, Deportivo La Caruna, Lyon, Real Madrid, AC Milan, Arsenal, Monaco.

It's also interesting to observe that in contrast the last year's UCL, where 3 Italian teams made it to the semis, only Milan is still around at the quarter finals stage. Nevertheless they're probably the strongest team remaining (especially if Ronaldo is out for as long as they say he might be), followed closely by Arsenal. Fingers crossed for a Milan V Arsenal final.

[krel]

i was wrong. :( bayern lost.

i';d rather have a Real-Arsenal final, that would be much more interesting imho.

i still remember reading articles on the last year's final, they said the match between Juve-Milan was boring. and if i remember correctly, the score was 1-1 or 0-0. Zzzzzzz.............

[Benny_]

Milan is not a boring team by any means. They're the 2nd most exciting if not the most exciting team to watch in the Serie A (1st would be Roma).

Anyway seems Roma is gonna go down to Villareal 2-0 lolz.. that is absolutely hilarious I must say. Valencia was also surprised away to that Turkish team whose name I can't spell. Barca is atm down 1-0 to Celtic at Celtic, while Inter's struggling to find a goal at Benfica. Worst of the news is that Liverpool were, the last time I checked 1-1 at Anfield against Marseille, meaning we've conceded a costly away goal. Hopefully we can score another 1 at least to easy our nerves a little.

[loner]

All of big guns rested key players. Both Valencia and Roma fielded backup goalkeepers and kept key players on the bench. However, Liverpool did field their best side. They still have a chance, but if you can't beat a team struggling in mid-table in the French Lige, than you can't be too optimistic about their own league aspirations.

Milan.....exciting? They're the best sleep-inducing side in the world. I am a fan of a balanced team with a good defence, but Milan plays too defensively for a neutral fan to enjoy. They simply contain the opponent's attack, let Gattuso tackle the brain out of all of 'em, and catch them on the break to let Shevy or Pipo score or simply let Kaka strike out of nowhere. Therefore, you'll at best see 2 or 3 moments of brilliance. The rest of the game is filled with absolute dullness. The opponent can't get anywhere near the goal, and Milan isn't bothering. You'll simply see endless passing of the ball and hard tackles everywhere from Gattuso. Sides like Barcelona, Roma and Arsenal are the ones that play attractive football. Milan are one of those who prefer to play ugly.

I'm not saying that they are not a bad side. Their style is effective. Gattuso is the best tackler in the world, Shevchenko and Inzaghi are the two of the best finishers in the world and Nesta and Maldini are two of the best defenders in the world. However, that doesn't mean they are exciting. The most exciting side in the Seria A for a neutral fan is Inter. They are unpredictable, and their ultra-gung ho approach oozes excitement. Another side that is extremely entertaining is Tottenham Hotspurs. You just gotta love how they always manage to score a bunch of goals, only to throw the lead away in the most hilarious ways. But ask any fans of Spurs or Inter, and they will tell you that they are not happy with this kind of style.

[Dimesion 12]

I am a very big soccer fan. I practice soccer every day of the week and am on my school team. I even play off season soccer in the fall.

Well I am a personal favorite of Liverpool and Germany, but my favorate player would have to be David Beckham. I even did a speech on him in my speech class.

[Benny_]

Oh yeah I forgot about Inter.. I guess they can be exciting, but they're too busy getting thrashed by teams like Brescia to really be all that attractive. Inzaghi is just a tap in specialist like Van Nistelrooy, but Schevchenko's got some of the best all round skills for a striker, maybe a bit lesser to Henry. Roma, Arsenal and Barca do all play attractive football, no doubt about that, but I've never found Milan to be boring to watch.... with the obvious except of last year's UCL final, but they were playing against Lippi's Juve, so that style of play was to be expected. Anyway Milan have some unbelievable playmakers anyway, Pirlo and Kaka are going to be two of the best in the future. Pirlo's quality is such that the great Rui Costa has been warming the bench most of the time this season.

Anyway I agree about Inter and Tottenham, they're two teams packed with striking quality and can be fantastic to watch on their day. When you get down to it though, Tottenham isn't Real Madrid, and don't have close to enough attacking quality to field second rate defenders. Inter on the other hand does, all they need to do is get rid of the 3-4-3 and employ a pre Saha Man Utd sytem with Vieri up front and Recoba or Martins in support.

Moving along to the draws for the remained of the Champions League.

QFs

FC Porto v Lyon
AC Milan v Deportivo La Coruna
Real Madrid v AS Monaco
Chelsea v Arsenal

SFs

Real Madrid or AS Monaco v Chelsea or Arsenal
FC Porto or Lyon v AC Milan or Deportivo

Arsenal have a damn huge task if they're going to win. I'm tipping them to beat Chelsea, but it's a big ask for them to beat Madrid then Milan in the SFs if they should go through, the final. Milan in contrast have a fairly easy task, Lyon and Porto aren't from the big European leagues, and would find it tough to make it through. Depor hae struggled recently in La Liga, and other than their victories over Juventus, have had a fairly dismal Euro season as well. Milan definitely to go through to the final to meet Madrid or Arsenal, should be far more exciting than last year.

[loner]

....Ok, that was strange. Man City 4, Man Utd 1?

Now, I know United's defence is rotting, but their performance in that game defensively was absolutely abysmal. The first goal was laughable, the second one shocking, the third one simply freaky and the fourth one....well...they can't do much about that one. Still, this defeat may either cause United's players to stop feeling sorry for themselves and respond in a positive manner, like they did last season, or simply lapse into complete disarray, and get a couple more of these travesties.

Urgh....and Lazio thrown away 2-goal lead to let Udinese equalize in added time. And to cap that off, Castroman scored...

[Benny_]

Utd's was still experiencing the shellshock of getting pipped at the last minute by Porto I think, nevermind, their seasons pretty much over. The only thing to salvage now is some pride by winning the FA cup. What i don't agree with though is all this utter rubbish about how Utd's time at the top is over after one bad season. I think they'll bounce back and still be at least on even keel with Arsenal and Chelsea, and I think Fergie will stay as well.

Meanwhile frigging S'ton beat the reds :'(, Champions League hopes starting to slip away again. No Champions League qualification will mean the end of Houllier and could possibly see the exit of Owen. Thankfully Baros will be a sublime striker of the future, and Cisse is at least coming to Liverpool. Also encouraging is the rumour that Rafael Van der Vaart, the best of the new Dutch breed may be coming to Liverpool as well, with Okocha probably leaving Bolton at the end of the season, if he too can be swooped on, Liverpool will be team with attacking power to be reckoned with next season.. this is just wishful thinking, but imagine the goodness :D :

Dudek (much better goalie than the overrated and perpetually injured Kirkland)

Biscan, Hypiia, Traore, Carragher

Okocha, Gerrard, Van der Vaart, Kewell

Baros/Cisse or Owen/Cisse

And the teach will be managed by Scolari who will be sacked after Portugal fail at home in Euro2004. Taore doesn't look too solid as CB with Hyypia, but this would be a team with some firepower. Not really that unrealistic either, could happen if Scolari does come to Liverpool :P

[loner]

....Traore? He is, IMO, a worse defender than Abel Xavier. The reason why Liverpool is in this state is because Houllier insists on using players like Traore, Biscan and Diouf. Sure, they have their moments, but they will never be world-class players, and don't fit Liverpool's credentials. Put Henchoz back as Hyypia's partner, or buy another central defender. And Finnan should start on the right, since Biscan can't attack, and can barely defend as well. Liverpool already sterilized one of the flanks with Carragher. They need to have somebody to support the attack.

That midfield does look good. However, Van der Vaart says that his first choice will always be Barcelona. Kewell also needs to perform more consistently. In attack, Baros will become a much better striker than Owen IMO. Owen looks as if he is thinking about life after Liverpool now. He is becoming more and more forlorn (and that was one of the laziest penalty shot i've ever seen). Cisse also looks promising, but he needs to adjust to life in Britain quickly, and also learn to curb his temper.

As for the future manager, Scolari seems a bit too unrealistic. However, Martin O'Neill or Mark Hughes could be good bets. They are different types of managers, admittedly, but I can see both of them succeeding in Anfield. If anything, both managers show much more passion and energy than the increasingly listless Houllier.

[Benny_]

Well the important thing is to get rid of Houllier now I think. His incompetency tactically can only be matched by his incompetency in the transfer market (Kewell excepted). I realise that the back four looks damn lousy, but if Liverpool were to buy Van der Vaart and Cisse there wouldn't be much left in the bank for a world class defender. Did Henchoz get an offer to make his move permenant? I hope not.
Is Barca interested in Van der Vaart? They have a terrific midfield as it is with plenty of creativity, so I don't know if Van der Vaart will get his first choice. Hopefully Houllier or whoever it is that will no doubt replace him next season will buy him. Actually if Houllier stays I doubt he'll be coming to Liverpool, since Houllier's only interested in French players or players from the French league. You'd think Ligue 1 was the only football Houllier watched other than the EPL. I remember last year when Rivaldo indicated that he was interested in a move to Liverpool and Houllier dismissed the possibility, this was back before Rivaldo became obselete, so I was a bit surprised then, but it just goes to show Houllier's narrowmindedness.
While we're still on English clubs, how does everyone fancy Arsenal's chances in the Champions League? Theoretically they face a near impossible task in having to overhaul the attacking side in Europe followed by the best defensive side in Europe, but they are going well right now. I'm hoping either Arsenal or Lyon will win.. unlikely as it is

[loner]

Barca want Van der Vaart to replace Overmars on the left. They have Luis Garcia there, but Van der Vaart is easily the better player.

Liverpool will have decent amount of money if they can get rid of all of these players: Heskey, Diouf, Diao, Biscan, Traore, Cheyrou and Smicer. Of course, Liverpool will lose money in some of the deals (tell me who would want Heskey for 11m?), but combined Liverpool can at least have some money to pay for new blood.

Looking at the Ligue 1 isn't that bad of an idea, if you can spot the good player. There are plenty of talents there: Juninho, Mexes, Giuly, Rothen, Pedretti, Oruma, Bernardi, Drogba, etc. I've seen all of them play, and I believe all of them can help out Liverpool in some way. Giuly will especially give Liverpool an edge on the right wing. Perhaps the new manager, whoever he is, should try to look this way.

I believe this is Arsenal's best chance of winning. This is their best season for a long time. They still lack a little faith in themselves in Europe though. Beating the likes of Inter and Celta is different than facing a side such as, say, AC Milan. But realistically, only AC and Real Madrid should stand in their way now. They know how to beat Chelsea already. Beating Real Madrid isn't that hard either. Henry, Pires, Bergkamp, Reyes and Ljungberg can have a field day against Real's defence, while Gunner's defence can certainly withhold Real's attack. AC, however, is a much more balanced team that is in great form. I believe they are the favorites to win, but Arsenal does have the players to challenge them. As for Lyon, well, they instantly won my favour by beating Bayern Munich. It would be great if they could win, but let's be realistic, they may not even beat Porto.

[Benny_]

Well well.. many developments happened overnight it seems, Owen actually scored a brace.. against Portsmouth, but a brace nevertheless. I don't know, I'm not even sure if I want him to stay anymore. He's one of the best strikers England's had for a long time, but Liverpool just badly needs a shakeup.

In even more interesting news, Beckham scored for the first time in a long time for Madrid against Real Zaragoza, but couldn't prevent them from going down 3-2 in extra time. I can't help but really sympathise with Madrid right now. I don't think anyone would begrudge them of the championships if for no other reason than out of sympathy for the victims.

In Italy Lazio is 2-0 up against Juve in the Copa Italia final, good news for your Italian team loner :). Juve's season is going down the toilet at the moment. If Roma doesn't choke, it looks like Juve might even miss out on automatic qualifcation next season for the UCL. They too need a bit of a shakeup, Nedved's had a pretty mediocre season by his lofty standards, and at the back Thuram hasn't had the form that made him one of the world's best defenders. Aside for injuries to Del Piero and Trezeguet, they also loaned off Davids to Barca and aren't looking great in midfield. Looks to me like Juve is suffering a very similar sort of collapse to Man Utd. If Man Utd's reign at the top of the EPL is indeed drawing to a close as some are already claiming, the same might be said for Juve.

Meanwhile back in England, Ferdiand's launched his appeal to have his 8 month ban reduced, probably in vain. Personally I thought it was a pretty harsh call by the English FA. Worse still is Blatter's disgusting meddling in the affairs of domestic leagues, I can't believe FIFA is completely behind him through all this.

[loner]

Hah! Take that! Fiore bags both, and Juve does look sorry without Davids. Although there's still the away game, I can see Lazio at least getting a draw. I think Lazio deserved this cup. Though nobody takes it seriously anymore, it's still a silverware. And at least we will be better than Juve, and possibly Roma (crossing my fingers that Villareal will kick them out of the UEFA Cup).

As much as I sympathize with the victims who died in that tragedy, I still hate Real Madrid, and still want them trophyless. I will give my support to Atletico Madrid instead. After all, they have more Spanish players in their lineup.

As for Liverpool's win, well, it's Portsmouth. If Liverpool lose to them AGAIN, then that will be really embarassing. And I don't think harassing Pompey's defence make Owen a great striker.

[Benny_]

Arsenal 28 70
Chelsea 28 61
Man United 28 58
Charlton 28 43
Liverpool 28 42
Newcastle 28 42
Birmingham 28 42


With 10 matches to go and a lead of 9 points, only a choking of the highest order would cost Arsenal the title. The most interesting battle then will of course be for the final UCL spot. 1 point separates 4th to 7th places, so everyone from Charlton to Fulham are all theoretically in the hunt. Based on quality alone, the supremacy of Liverpool and Newcastle in this group of 6 clubs can't be disputed. On the other hand these same 2 clubs have struggled for consistency all season, and could well be tested by any of the other 3 clubs in the pack. Rather than going through the entirety of each club's run home, I'll make a prediction of their likihood of attaining 4th spot based on the games they have against other top 9 clubs, especially the big 3 of Arsenal, Chelsea and Man Utd.

Liverpool has possibly the toughest run home facing six of the top 9, including Arsenal, Man Utd, Newcastle and Charlton. Much as I hate to admit it, our chances look slim. Nevertheless, gotta support my team. Prediction 4th

Newcastle has a slightly easier run with 5 of the top 9, the toughest challenges being Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool.. it's 50/50 between them and Liverpool. Prediction 5th

Charlton has a comparatively easy run to both the above contenders. Although they also face 5 of the 9, they've already faced the top 3, so their matches against Newcastle and Liverpool will be decisive to their fate. However, their inexperience with the pressure of the fight for a place may cost them against the better clubs. Prediction 5th

Finally Birmingham, with their comparatively lesser quality to the the 3 clubs above them look to have it tough, facing two of them (Livepool and Charlton), as well as likely champions Arsenal and FA cup contenders Man Utd. Much rests on if Forssell continues to fire and if their defence remains relatively solid as it has most of the year. Prediction 7th

[loner]

My predictions are slightly different than yours, Benny:

4. Newcastle: Since I stand on neutral ground, I'd say overall Newcastle has been playing better football than Liverpool, hence their better league position so far. I also trust Sir Bobby more than Houllier to rally the team

5. Liverpool: They can beat Man Utd, but it will be a tall order for them to beat Arsenal. Charlton also looks tricky. So yes your chances do look slim. But since they have more experience and better players than the likes of Charlton, I expect them to get into Uefa Cup at least

6. Aston Villa: They are looking stronger and stronger. You can't leave them out of the equation. They have a solid defence, an effective midfield, and a strikeforce that is finally scoring the amount of goals expected from them.

7. Charlton: They are always in danger of end-season meltdowns. I don't expect that to be too serious this season, but attain an Europe place they will not.

[Benny_]

well the thread's been dead for a while, but i can't help but bring it back to life for a little while. I think this week's Champions League matches must've been the biggest collective round of upsets ever in a Champions League round. Real, Milan and Arsenal all lost to the underdogs. While I somewhat expected Real to go down to Monaco despite firing at the Bernabeu, Milan and Arsenal losing I couldn't have seen in all my most terrible nightmares.

Well that's an exaggeration of sorts, but still, I was out for a while so I didn't catch the results, but when I did today I sat flabbergasted for an interminable time before collecting my jaw from off the floor. The result that's most shocking of course is Milan.. 4-0 to a Deportivo that's had some real ups and downs this season.

Well now that I've thrown my sissy fit, I must say that with every single favourite gone, the competition is wide open. Chelsea, with its big stars and their collective European experience could well save Ranieri's job by picking up club football's greatest prize. Then on the other hand, and the other side of the draw there's Deportivo, who picked up the scalps of both of last year's finalists. Who to support?
*Sigh* To be quite honest I've never been a supporter of the underdog, supporting Liverpool all the time has waned my capacity to throw my strength against the inferior.. *ahem*.. unfortunate teams, so I was really hoping all the favourites would go through and set up a star studded showdown. Oh well... still Euro 2004 to look forward to. France had BETTER not choke.

[The Macaque]

Finally, the definitive proof that money isn't everything in football today. Now if only someone could tell that to the Everton management. Oh yeah, and our very own Finnish teams of course.

[Yurika Star]

Only one i expected was the Chelsea to go through. I thought it might be tight for Real, but i thought they'd get the goals like normal.

Shocked at Milan going out though.

I thought, and still think, Chelsea could win this thing. And i hope they do. But with all the teams there there's gotta be a chance for everyone.

[loner]

You gotta love Monaco and Depor. They are the craziest sides in the world. 8-3, losing big in first leg only to win comprehensively in the second....what's next? I really hope to see them in the final, just for how unpredictable they are. However, my head still tells me it'll be the favorites, Chelsea and Porto, in the final.

As for the big guns that bowed out, I can only say they deserved what they got. They underestimated their opponent's ability to write history, and got paid big time. Real Madrid's defence was a joke, but they always have been. But AC Milan's defence really disappointed me. Dida, Nesta, Maldini and Gattuso, who are suppose to form the best defence in the world, all made costly mistakes. Up front, Tomasson and Sheva couldn't break Depor's offside trap, Seedorf barely existed and Kaka looked offcolour. As for Arsenal, they just ran out of steam in the end.

All these sides are sitting at the top of their league. Milan have a 9 point cushion while Arsenal are leading with 4 points with a game in hand. The championship is still theirs unless they manage the biggest slip up in history. As for Real Madrid, I think my prediction that they won't anything this year, which looked unlikely at the time I made it, now seems right. It was their fault that they didn't win the Spanish Cup and progress to the semi-final, and now they are only 1 point above Valencia. While Valencia's games are all against sides below the Euro places right now, Real Madrid still have to face Depor, Barca and Atletico Madrid in succession. If such performances still can't convince Perez to buy a defender, then they can never win the Champion's League.

And finally, Liverpool should buy Giuly. I'd get him instead of Okocha.

[Benny_]

Am I the only one who doesn't feel sorry for the big dirty corporation teams here? Well.. Milan anyway, 4-0 against a team of their defensive calibre is just far too cruel.

Meanwhile Arsenal are gonna have to get their act together real quick because they have Liverpool and Newcastle to come, so a choke here and there could see them remarkably end the season empty handed.

Who's this Giuly fellow? Never heard of him

[loner]

Watch the Monaco game. He's the captain and the guy who scored two goals. And if that performance can't convince him that he's better than Diouf, than I don't know what will.

And how can I feel sorry for the big teams when it's obvious that they deserved what they got? I hate Real Madrid, but I don't have any particular feelings towards Milan and Arsenal. I have a little sympathy for Arsenal since they played well in the first half. But if you can't convert your chances and then can't keep up the pressure, you are going to lose. As for Milan, well, I don't care how good Nesta, Maldini, Dida, Cafu and Gattuso are usually, if they played like that, they are going to get hammered. How's that cruel? Cruel is when you shoot 30 shots on goal and still lose to a fortuitous goal. Cruel is not when you simply allow the other team take the offensive while letting your defence daydream. I am willing to admit that Blackburn were crap against Liverpool. I hope that you can see that Milan were crap against Depor that night.

And I thought you wished that Arsenal would continue to falter, at least for one more game.....

[krel]

Arsenal 4-2 Liverpool .....

pool were 2-1 up at half-time, then Henry and Pires scored...henry hat-trick. owen and hyppia scored for Liverpool. I was so happy when i looked at the half time score on football365.com, i could've cried. but it all fell apart in the second half. i didn't watch the match btw.

[Benny_]

Damn Arseanal, teach me for being sympathetic towards them for their CL woes. I watched Hyypia score at a club, then I got dragged off to play pool by my friends and missed the rest.. just as well so it turns out :(

[loner]

Lose at home....AGAIN! To Leeds of all teams! And damn that sneaky Juve.....

[Benny_]

Yay go Leeds, it'd be a shame to see them go down when they were Champions League semi-finalists only a couple of years back. Besides relegation would utterly destroy them, they don't have the depth to sweep all before them in division 1, so if they go down, we won't be seeing much of them for a while. I think Rovers will stay up as well though if they can just get their act together for 2-3 and pick up maybe 6 points, I can't help but feel that Pompey doesn't have the experience to keep winning, especially when the teams they've got left to play includes Arsenal, Man U, Fulham, Birmingham and a much improved Middlesbrough. That leaves Leiscester and Leeds, who are both also fighting for survival and won't make it easy for them. Blackburn at least only as Man Utd out of the big 3.

On a happier note, Arsenal drew Newcastle, so Liverpool stays 4th for another week. Hopefully European duties will distract the magpies so we can qualify next season!

[loner]

Well you can't just hope that the teams competing with you will do worse. Liverpool and Blackburn both need to start to get the work done if they don't want the season to turn out to be a disaster. I don't want Leeds to go down either, since I admire their team spirit after all that's been going on there, but I don't think I have the time to care about that now. Whoever goes down instead of Blackburn would do.

And Real Madrid....shambolic. That's why you need good defenders. So that your team won't totally collapse when your attacking players falter. But Osasuna are also praiseworthy. They are a side that has no star, but their defence have been simply amazing this year.

[Losha]

I hope that Liverpool or Spartak Moscow take the EURO cup this year.

[soundchazer]

Originally posted by loner
And Real Madrid....shambolic. That's why you need good defenders. So that your team won't totally collapse when your attacking players falter. But Osasuna are also praiseworthy. They are a side that has no star, but their defence have been simply amazing this year.

Javier Aguirre will probably move on to coach a better team next year. This guy is just unbelieveably good at taking unfocused teams and making them winners. I don't think Osasuna will have the money or players to make his project come to fruition.

[Benny_]

Originally posted by Losha
I hope that Liverpool or Spartak Moscow take the EURO cup this year.

wtf.. liverpool didn't make the ECL and got eliminated by marseille in the uefa cup.. I don't even remember if Spartak Moscow made the Uefa cup.

Worse yet, Livepool lost to frigging Charlton.. is the dream over? It'll depend on the final match of the season between Liverpool and Newcastle I expect.. or maybe that's too much to hope for. Meanwhile Blackburn won a thriller last night.. too bad Portsmouth did too ey?

Who's this Javier Aguirre fellow? What's his record like?

[loner]

Yeah they made the UEFA Cup....Eliminated by Mallorca a long time ago tho.....Watch more sports news, Losha

I'm don't know Javier Aguirre a lot either, except that he used to be the coach of Mexico. However, he had turned a team facing relegation last year into one that is qualifying for the UEFA Cup. Needless to say he is a better coach than Houllier.

Damn those Brummies.....Stole all our players, rip us apart in FA Cup and now let our opponent win.....And really, Liverpool need to start playing better than that. No offence, but they were pretty pathetic. Nothing like the side that beat...ur......Blackburn.....

[soundchazer]

Originally posted by loner
I'm don't know Javier Aguirre a lot either, except that he used to be the coach of Mexico. However, he had turned a team facing relegation last year into one that is qualifying for the UEFA Cup. Needless to say he is a better coach than Houllier.

The guy has been perhaps the best person to make the transition from National Team Player to Coach in Mexico in a long while. He played the 1986 World Cup in Mexico. He was one of the best midfielders we had at the time.

As a coach he took a team called Pachuca, which had made it to the First/Premier league 3 or 4 years before, and was always facing relegation, and in his second season won the Mexican Championship. Afterwards, he also took it to the finals once again (remember that Mexico has a playoff-type of competition), ending second.

He was called to try to clean up a mess in the National Team left by the previous coach, which had Mexico in the 5th position of the World Cup qualifiers, which meant having to win the rest of the matches, with the only leeway being to tie one, and got Mexico to the World Cup.

Once in the World Cup, he qualified Mexico to the 2nd round as first in the group, leaving Italy in second and scaring the bejeesus out of them (Italy tied the match in the last 10 minutes and were on the verge of being disqualified).

Afterwards he left the national team and went to Osasuna, saving it from relegation the first year, and as stated before, having it in the 5th place in the Spanish league right now, with modest talent surrounding the team.

I would say his main trait is he is a great motivator and likes to make players accountable for their actions on the field.

[Benny_]

Sounds like we could use him at the Reds, we've got the players for him to do good things too, especially since he'll realise the crapness of losers like Heskey and Biscan and offload them

[Losha]

Originally posted by Benny_
wtf.. liverpool didn't make the ECL and got eliminated by marseille in the uefa cup.. I don't even remember if Spartak Moscow made the Uefa cup.

Worse yet, Livepool lost to frigging Charlton.. is the dream over? It'll depend on the final match of the season between Liverpool and Newcastle I expect.. or maybe that's too much to hope for. Meanwhile Blackburn won a thriller last night.. too bad Portsmouth did too ey?

Who's this Javier Aguirre fellow? What's his record like?

WTF!!!
i didnt wrothe this thing!!!
Liverpool would never take the UEFA cup this year and i even dont like Liverpool or Spatak Moscow they lost 10 time in a raw maybe my brother did it but not me couse i know football very well.
today suposed to be the UEFA cup Quarter-finals 2nd leg.i know the final will be in Gothenburg, Sweden and the final of UEFA champions league will be in Gelsenkirchen, Germany.and i still cant bealive that Deportivo won Milan by 4 - 0 i knew that milan doesnt have achanse to win Deportivo but still 4 - 0?!

[Phelddagrif]

Originally posted by soundchazer
for that many star players, their level of play as a team is mediocre.

just like the yankees! ^_^

[bob]

Personally I'm a celtic man, and no not a glory supporter. I'm catholic and from glasgow so there's not really any other team i can like is there?
Sucks ass we're out of the cup but at least me made it as far as we did.

Anyone see big ron's "outburst" I nearly wet myself when I read what he actually said. I guess he's what's known in some schools and a lazy ****ing thick white boy.

[loner]

Quite surprised to hear Ron Atkinson say that. I always thought he was against racism. Players like Fashanu flourished under him. But I'm really sick of that kind of talk. The English football community is supposed to be one of the least racist in Europe. I hate seeing it degrade to the level of Eastern Europe, where every black player, or any foreigner for that matter, are booed and abused.

I like Celtic a lot. Likeable manager and great team spirit. I believe their fans are also great, and I really wanted to win the UEFA Cup last season and this season as well. Well, at least you won the league.

[bob]

that was not a good week to be a celtic fan but least we won this year and have extended our no home loses to insane levels. moan the hoops.

[Annihalator]

I really don't care for the sport

[soundchazer]

Originally posted by Annihalator
I really don't care for the sport

your loss.

[Benny_]

Dang Newcastle won against Chelski.. looks like Liverpool can only hope to snatch the 4th spot at the last game at best.. they're facing slightly tougher opposition than the Magpies on the final straight though, so I can only keep my fingers crossed. Meanwhile Rovers seem to have avoided relegation.. and Leeds is in deep Sh*t

[nixie1512]

arsenal rulezzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Benny_]

Well done to Arsenal on their crowning as EPL champions in a season they've truly dominated. To finish undefeated would of course be a big bonus for them. Meanwhile fingers crossed for the Reds pick up that 4th spot

Also interestingly Frank Rjikaard is interested in bringing Owen to the Camp Nou.. oh well, he's playing poorly anyway, I like Baros-Cisse much better atm. What's extremely puzzling for me is that Kewell is playing as a striker.. wtf is Houllier thinking

[Datsun]

It's pretty well documented that Houllier is a pretty bad transfer market dealer. But any coach is expected to make do with what they have, and with the budget, and heck, the talent that is at his disposal it's apparant that Houllier is unable to harness that talent, or even channel it to other avenues.

[loner]

Well, Blackburn made it. Or at least I think they made it(still not completely sure yet, one more point is needed). However, we never should have been there the first place, and much, MUCH better defenders are needed (maybe Henchoz can return). Yorke also needs to go, since he is wrecking havoc with the team spirit.

Liverpool played pretty well against Man Utd. Unluckily, Newcastle played even better against Chelski. Shearer's goal was....urgh....if only he was still playing for Blackburn.....

[Benny_]

Originally posted by loner
Well, Blackburn made it. Or at least I think they made it(still not completely sure yet, one more point is needed). However, we never should have been there the first place, and much, MUCH better defenders are needed (maybe Henchoz can return). Yorke also needs to go, since he is wrecking havoc with the team spirit.

Liverpool played pretty well against Man Utd. Unluckily, Newcastle played even better against Chelski. Shearer's goal was....urgh....if only he was still playing for Blackburn.....

Go away, Henchoz is a Reds man :P. Liverpool didn't play that well against Man Utd, Man Utd was just playing poorly. Why why why is Baros not partnered up with Owen, it's insane I say.

Originally posted by Datsun
It's pretty well documented that Houllier is a pretty bad transfer market dealer. But any coach is expected to make do with what they have, and with the budget, and heck, the talent that is at his disposal it's apparant that Houllier is unable to harness that talent, or even channel it to other avenues.

Yes.. Houllier needs to go, anyone who's stupid enough to have Kewell playing in 3 different positions in a season must surely be retarded. Besides his creative talents are wasted up front. Maybe the Reds board will bring in someone good.. del Bosque perhaps

[krel]

Djibril Ciise will be coming in during the summer i think.

[Benny_]

Farewell to Roby Baggio, one of the all time Italian greats. It was great to see him get a last hurrah on the international stage, I'm sure Azzuri fans and soccer fans all around the world will look back on his career fondly.. except possibly for those people that can't let go of that penalty miss, but they just suck :P

[loner]

If Houllier gets back to his old, strict self, Henchoz would not be a Reds man. And remember where you Reds snatched him from....

Liverpool vs. Man U: Well, it's the best that Liverpool have played for quite a while anyways. At least Dudek didn't um....you know....

[Benny_]

Liverpool wins and Newcastle loses.. not quite sure what to feel. If Liverpool makes the Champions League I've got a feeling Houllier might stay around and get us kicked in qualifying, and at the same time Leeds has suffered badly from Man City winning.. then again getting thrashed by Bolton was their own stupid fault.

Moving along.. we have 2 finalists for the Champions League this year.. Porto vs Monaco. I'm rather indifferent towards both teams, on the one hand Deco's a great player to watch for Porto, but on the other their diving makes Pires's efforts pale in comparison. Go Monaco I guess, I'm a fan of Morientes, and it's been a long while since a French team won anything in Europe.

[loner]

If you told me beforehand that those two are gonna make the finals, I would've thought you were starve raving mad. But that's what cup competitions are all about. Don't you just get bored at seeing the AC Milans and Real Madrids go to the finals all the time? I think all those upsets make this year's competition way more exciting than last year's.

I am rooting for Monaco right now. Porto play some magnificent passing football that ripped Man U apart, and Deco is simply brilliant. But I also hate their playacting and diving. I counted 3 elbows from Porto players aimed at Manuel Pablo in the Depor game, and that makes me a bit sickened. On the other hand, Monaco play with an aggressive and attacking